08-17-2020, 09:02 PM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
Look at this exchange on the forum from 2007 about DR being switchable.
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In other words, Kromm is explicitly denying the inconvenience of visibility that Pedersen had proposed the switchable solution for. I don't know how this could be any more unambiguous. The "No Signature" enhancement on DR in Monster Hunters is for a mystical force field - Armor of Faith - the description for which explicitly states: "This is not obvious – the attacks just seem to do less damage than they should." The other place in Monster Hunters where DR has a "No Signature" modifier is for Demonspawn, and there, too, the description says "this allows you to blend into humanity." Meanwhile, elsewhere in Monster Hunters, DR with the Tough Skin limitation (and without "No Signature") appears on a number of templates - with no indication that "you have skin like a crocodile," or whatever. I don't know where you're getting the Sorcery effects on DR. I can't find any mention in Thaumatology: Sorcery about DR with Visible. Again, this is two places in ALL of the GURPS stuff, apparently, that have the words "No Signature" associated with DR - and in BOTH places, the fluff text clearly mentions supernatural effects that are remarkably (that is, it's remarked upon in the text) unnoticeable. I don't think that's enough to make Kromm's very clear ruling on the matter irrelevant. |
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08-17-2020, 09:14 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
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(And, like many posters in this very discussion have done, glossing past the question of whether people looking at you can perceive it.)
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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08-17-2020, 09:17 PM | #13 |
Join Date: Mar 2016
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
I was operating off of memory from the other thread. It was in Sorcery - Protection and Warning Spells.
Worth noting that Monster Hunters also includes Low Signature on DR, where it's described as making said DR "much tougher than it looks", only being detectable by touch and a Per-4 roll. The implication in MH is that unmodified DR is clearly visible. |
08-17-2020, 09:25 PM | #14 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
It would be a weird way to say that if he weren't responding directly to the suggestion Pedersen had made 5 minutes earlier. Pedersen says DR is visible, so you should either get Switchable or Low or No Signature. Kromm says, it has "no appearance issues" and switchable has is pointless for this purpose. You could, he says, invent a nuisance effect to DR as a limitation, though, that would make switchable worthwhile.
Why don't you go back and read that thread from 2007? Again, I really don't think this could be a more unambiguous ruling. Suggesting that Kromm isn't telling Pederson that DR isn't visible but is instead saying (again without clearly mentioning it - and in doing so raising a totally new issue without clearly identifying it - all very un-Kromm-like) that it has no reaction modifiers?! This seems as though you're really looking for a way to misread the exchange. |
08-17-2020, 09:25 PM | #15 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
The way to detect DR is to hit the thing that has it. Just having laser eyes isn't obvious. You have to use them.
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08-17-2020, 09:38 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
This is interesting, but again, the ability in question has the "Bioenhancement" Power Modifier. The fluff text for that says that these "physical and mental capabilities, [are] made possible via 'wet nanotech' treatments, upgraded organs, etc. Its abilities are feats that, while theoretically possible, are beyond the capacity of normal human beings." Then the limitations that form the power modifier explicitly call out the detectability of the Bionenhancement abilities as limitations: first, the Unusual Biochemistry limitation, then, "Enemies with scientific minds can learn much about you if they can get a copy of your file – that is, the data on the experiments that produced you, including the abilities you were given." So this suggests that concealment of Bioenhancement abilities is clearly related to the PM, since the baddies can deduce your powers from a file and then use "Chemistry or Pharmacy to produce targeted pathogens and drugs that can be used to hamper, overload, or neutralize your abilities." This case seems clearly to be a case of "Low Signature" on a Robocop-style augmentation - which has, as Kromm pointed out in that post - a couple of limitations added in the form of the Power Modifier - much like the Nuisance Effect he mentioned.
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08-17-2020, 09:39 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
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08-17-2020, 10:52 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
I did. The more I read the quote, the less sense it makes, even in context... which suggests it is being used wrong in this discussion, that I don't understand what it is saying (even in context), or both.
Where do you draw the line between something "inconveniencing" you and something simply not providing additional advantage? Some Physical Advantages, by default are:
so just listing examples doesn't prove this one way or the other. I can point out that having Extra Arms are going to be completely Visible by default, meaning one can't take that as a Limitation. We also need to be careful to avoid confusing apples with oranges Quote:
What I do know is that I have at least some working knowledge of how much damage something can take in the real world, and by sight alone. I may only have vague notion like "This can probably take a hit without breaking." but I do have that vague notion. I won't always get it right, whether because I was mistaken or because the things looks are misleading, but that doesn't equate to DR being imperceptible by default.
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08-17-2020, 11:36 PM | #19 | |||
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
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08-18-2020, 12:19 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Damage Resistance: How Noticeable Is It By Default
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I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
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