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Old 07-21-2011, 03:32 AM   #11
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
I'm inclined to not give glass the benefits of homogeneous because of its basic fragility, but it does lack the features that normally result in either living or unliving injury vulnerability.
If "glass is too fragile to be Homogeneous in GURPS terms", then there arises a new problem: Where's the borderline between "Doesn't deserve Homogeneous because of its basic fragility" and "Not fragile enough to be deprived of Homogenous"? Are 2-gallon glass bottles Homogenous or not? How about 58-cubic-inch wodden boxes? (Both on p. 34 of Low-Tech.)
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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Originally Posted by Gurps Fan View Post
If "glass is too fragile to be Homogeneous in GURPS terms", then there arises a new problem: Where's the borderline between "Doesn't deserve Homogeneous because of its basic fragility" and "Not fragile enough to be deprived of Homogenous"? Are 2-gallon glass bottles Homogenous or not? How about 58-cubic-inch wodden boxes? (Both on p. 34 of Low-Tech.)
A good question to ask is: If I dropped this item on a wooden floor from waist height (~1 yard), would it break? The bottles likely would, the box (if empty) probably wouldn't (although that might be reflected in it's DR and HP already).
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:03 AM   #13
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

It should probably have DR:3 HP:1 instead.

This way, if you hit someone with it, it won't break unless you do a lot of damage 4+. (this is realistic). But a single powerful blow (or shot) will break it.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:14 AM   #14
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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Anyone knows that any commercial 9mm handgun round can easily destroy any of glassware in your house in one shot. But does this happen in GURPS? [...] How can you destroy glassware with a handgun in one shot in GURPS, just like in the real life?
This is why we have GMs. If one of my players says, "I shoot the bottle," I don't need to look up stats and rules - "it breaks."

Rules are no substitute for common sense. Sorry.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:33 AM   #15
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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A good question to ask is: If I dropped this item on a wooden floor from waist height (~1 yard), would it break? The bottles likely would, the box (if empty) probably wouldn't (although that might be reflected in it's DR and HP already).
However, falling damage is crushing. Whether Homogenous or not has nothing to do with the wounding multiplier of crushing attack.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:34 AM   #16
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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This is why we have GMs. If one of my players says, "I shoot the bottle," I don't need to look up stats and rules - "it breaks."

Rules are no substitute for common sense. Sorry.
Yes, I think I know what the GM is supposed to do on the table and I totally agree with you. In fact, when I'm the GM, I'd say exactly the same thing to my players. However, I've been submitting questions about the book-written rules of GURPS here, not asking advice on how common sense works in RPGs. Sorry.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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Rules are no substitute for common sense. Sorry.
Rules can't fully replace the internal model of reality you call 'common sense', but it's fair to ask that they not contradict it.
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Originally Posted by Gurps Fan View Post
If "glass is too fragile to be Homogeneous in GURPS terms", then there arises a new problem: Where's the borderline between "Doesn't deserve Homogeneous because of its basic fragility" and "Not fragile enough to be deprived of Homogenous"? Are 2-gallon glass bottles Homogenous or not? How about 58-cubic-inch wodden boxes? (Both on p. 34 of Low-Tech.)
Well, my thought is that, for a glass bottle, the resilience that its homogeneity might grant is undermined by the way its structure propagates breaks. The core characteristic of a IT:Homogeneous object,thinking functionally, is that when you punch a hole through it, there's minimal secondary effects. It just has a hole in it now. Whereas Unliving things have all sorts of important bits that a penetration can disrupt, and living things suffer tissue trauma and bleeding as well. A glass object doesn't have special internal bits to break, or live tissue to abuse, but it doesn't get cleanly shot through either. It propagates the shock of the breakage to generally mess up the entire structure far more than the basic material displacement would imply. I think representing that by giving it IT:Unliving perhaps no such IT at all might be a good approach.

I'd probably then make the 2-gallon bottle not homogeneous, and the wooden box homogeneous, based on my impression of their respective material properties.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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No: it is hollow, which is the opposite of solid.
Ah, the fun with languages. I mean, if it's liquid or gaseous as opposed to solid, it should be Diffuse. :)
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:35 AM   #19
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

The rules Basic specifically give hollow objects as an example of Homogeneous.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: Glass Bottle vs. 9 mm Parabellum

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Many unpowered vehicles are also hollow, but they do count as Homogeneous.
I said "opposite of solid", not "opposite of Homogeneous".
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