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Old 09-29-2021, 06:43 AM   #81
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Default Re: Silly Cars

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Glass Cannon -- Heavy Trike, Extra-Heavy chassis, Heavy suspension, Super Cycle power plant w/PC & SC, 3 Motorcycle Heavy-Duty tires, Driver w/TC and BA and PFE, Blast Cannons Left and Right, Link (both BCs), Plastic Armor: F30, L24, R24, B24, T23, U10, 10-pt Cycle Wheelguard Front, 2 10-pt Wheelguards Back, Gear Allocation: [5 lbs.], Acceleration 5, Top Speed 90, HC 2, 3355 lbs., $19940
IMSMC: There's a design like this in _VG3_.

In my day: Any design with fewer than 40 pts. on each of the main facings was a "glass hammer" -- not to mention "deader than polyester bellbottoms"....
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Old 09-29-2021, 05:13 PM   #82
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Ha. I promise I didn't copy from the VG3 - I wouldn't touch that book

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IMSMC: There's a design like this in _VG3_.

In my day: Any design with fewer than 40 pts. on each of the main facings was a "glass hammer" -- not to mention "deader than polyester bellbottoms"....
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Old 09-30-2021, 02:55 AM   #83
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On 150 CID Engine being main choice in high end Arena Events : please remember not all Arenas or localities permit Gas Engines - Hammer Downs & that place in Switzerland (Zurich AutoDome?) come to mind .

I expect many Collegiate Dueling (ADQ 9/4) venues may ban Gas Engines just for additional safety reasons ?
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Old 09-30-2021, 06:09 AM   #84
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On 150 CID Engine being main choice in high end Arena Events : please remember not all Arenas or localities permit Gas Engines - Hammer Downs & that place in Switzerland (Zurich AutoDome?) come to mind .
We had the notion of "clone arenas" -- for ex.: An arena which looks like Hammer Downs, but isn't the actual one; and therefore would allow gasburners. :)
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Old 09-30-2021, 09:12 AM   #85
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On 150 CID Engine being main choice in high end Arena Events : please remember not all Arenas or localities permit Gas Engines - Hammer Downs & that place in Switzerland (Zurich AutoDome?) come to mind .

I expect many Collegiate Dueling (ADQ 9/4) venues may ban Gas Engines just for additional safety reasons ?
And sometimes there isn't enough fuel to go round because people panic buy and use it to fill up plastic water containers pulled out of a bin :)
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Old 09-30-2021, 10:28 AM   #86
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And sometimes there isn't enough fuel to go round because people panic buy and use it to fill up plastic water containers pulled out of a bin :)
Oh Merlin's balls that's so true . Was stuck for an extra hour on the local 'Hoppa' bus Saturday . Went food shopping with my girlfriend's flatmate , and got caught on long narrow lane with two petrol stations on it ! :-I
Long snaking queues of idiots burning MORE fuel ; Gf's flatmate fell asleep & she started to snore ... At least return journey was on two lane dual carriageway where queues would have less impact - and only petrol station on route was closed .

Had a minor repeat on Tuesday when late night frozen food shopping with her : many local bus routes diverted due to long queues again . I had to hop on & of a couple of Hoppa buses to get to a main route - I'm using a walking stick after my stroke & weighed down with heavy shopping bags , walking uphill to get a double decker not an option .
It was also raining hard ; my Girlfriend had multiple hissy fits (redhead with temper) & grumpy bus drivers contributed to a three hour+ odyssey for us ... over the normal 75 minute run ...

Oh joy ... She was in a foul mood for rest of the evening - even their shared cat - normally very sociable - gave her a wide berth ...


On the flip side for Car Wars , I notice that some Arenas & Tracks will spash out at some times of year & get X hundreds of Gallons of Gas for special events . Two weeks of Drag & Sprint Races , Tractor Pulls etc , would bring in big crowds .
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:29 AM   #87
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I have to say I glad that my thread [if that doesn't make my age I don't know what will] went a lot of interesting places. The interesting about Petrol is the setting that I hoping to run my game is Alberta, where it would be relatively cheap much like the Oil States.
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Old 10-15-2021, 02:37 PM   #88
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I have to say I glad that my thread [if that doesn't make my age I don't know what will] went a lot of interesting places. The interesting about Petrol is the setting that I hoping to run my game is Alberta, where it would be relatively cheap much like the Oil States.
Somewhere in my notes is a listing of various types of "fuel" one can burn in gas engines, and how $ and MPG are affected for a given PF setting. For ex.: Biodiesel is 1.5x $, but 2x MPG; while PNW gets a lot of alcohol-based fuel (apples; potatoes), which is ~0.6x MPG, but 0.5x $ (and with the apple-based fuel, the exhaust fumes smell like a Waldorf Salad :) ).
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:59 PM   #89
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I need to find the various Road Atlas Guides , with Rules for the different fuels as well : Petrol , Petrohol , Ethanol , Methanol , Nitro-Methane etc .

My Atlas 4 (Australia) went missmissing in a move , but sure I have two copies of Free Oil States one . (spare possibly given to T-Rex ? I will look when home . )
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:48 AM   #90
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I need to find the various Road Atlas Guides , with Rules for the different fuels as well : Petrol , Petrohol , Ethanol , Methanol , Nitro-Methane etc .

My Atlas 4 (Australia) went missmissing in a move , but sure I have two copies of Free Oil States one . (spare possibly given to T-Rex ? I will look when home . )
The only things I could find were that Ethanol (and an unfiltered variant) at $25 ($20) only had 60% of the equivalent mpg of petrol(gasoline) oversized plants increase this to 80% as they are more efficient. Unfiltered ethanol increases maintenance costs* (which is not something that exists in CW - though perhaps we should have it for gas burners at least). Oh and you can't use turbos or superchargers.

You could also use a petrol/ethanol mix at $35 per gallon but otherwise is identical in game to gas.

That 60% inefficiency kills pure ethanol for US car users as it effectively puts the cost at $41 per gallon. Unfiltered comes out at $33 per gallon equivalent, but the extra maintenance can quickly eat up any savings made unless you do them yourself (and are lucky). If your car was low performance (let's say that means ACC 5 maximum) the break even point would be lower.

If you use 50 gallons per month in a high performance car it will cost $2000 in petrol, $1750 in petrolnol. You would use 66% more ethanol so the cost would be $2083 not including the extra maintenance costs (£100-600). Unfiltered would cost $1666 plus maintenance ($125-625). Petronol is a clear winner. If you were using more fuel per month or were using an oversized vehicle then pure or unfiltered ethanol might become more attractive. A rig might easily use 200 gallons per month costing $7000 in petronol. It's increased efficiency means it is $6250 plus maintenance for pure ethanol and only $5000 for unfiltered easily offsetting even the worst case maintenance cost.

Of course this assumes you are buying ethanol. If you are making your own (we can assume it is unfiltered) you might be able to bring the price point down where it becomes affordable even at low usage levels. Distilling alcohol is far easier than fractionating crude oil and the raw materials are easier to come by (ether by purchase or theft). My orange juice gangers can ferment a gallon of orange juice to 10% alcohol easily. A gallon of gas is 10 gallons of juice with 15 pounds of oranges per gallon. 150 lb of oranges is a lot, but if each ganger only grabs a dozen oranges it only needs 25 gangers. They can be into a grove and out in minutes and the loss of such a small proportion of the crop (each tree can produce 300lb of fruit) isn't even worth mustering a defence for. They can hit a dozen groves in a night at very low risk.

We don't really have numbers for the costs of raw sugar etc. in CW but whilst we talk about Algae being the wonder food that saved the nation. When the grain blight was hitting hard other food became scare as it was the only alternative. With recovery and Algae replacing grain as the staple food, the pressure on those other food crops will have diminished and so a bag of sugar may be no more expensive in CW America than in 80's America. If that is the case and you can buy sugar at the store then home distillation of fuel becomes a much cheaper option. If you can have Algae beer you can also have Algae fuel. We could draw a parallel between the commercial cost of beer and the cost of home brew. Ignoring the cost of equipment and time someone calculated you can save 50% in the US brewing beer at home https://www.businessinsider.com/pers...12-7?r=US&IR=T. Where I live in Blighty it's hard to find drinkable beer cheaper than £1 a pint and I can home brew at 50p a pint so it seems equitable). So if commercially available unfiltered ethanol is $20 maybe we can say homemade ethanol in CW should be coming in at around $10 per gallon?

That would make ethanol vehicles far more attractive even with the maintenance (and if you are home brewing you are probably doing your own maintenance as well). I am inclined to say the best you can get at home is unfiltered with the additional maintenance overhead. Lets allow industry some USP :)


* The rules for this are slightly confusing as there are different values for street cars and duelling vehicles and I am not sure how you differentiate. The base cost is variable ($10-60 per month) multiplied by 5 for duellers and doubled where gas vehicles are uncommon. The extra $25 (for DIY it's $100 if you get it done by a mechanic) for unfiltered gas seems to be a fixed addition. I am inclined to say in a non-aussie game you will pay 1D * $100 per month (plus $25 if you use unfiltered ethanol).

Last edited by swordtart; 10-16-2021 at 02:02 AM.
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