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Old 09-16-2021, 03:11 PM   #51
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Silly Cars

We'll have to agree to disagree about this one :)
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:44 PM   #52
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Default Re: Silly Cars

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We'll have to agree to disagree about this one :)
[nod] Y'know, I think I'm making the same error I made with NOVA: I'm so... preoccupied, for lack of a better word... with *my* playing style, I don't think about how others might be playing it. (NOVA ran a "comic-book" campaign: Villain comes up with Plan; Villain Launches Plan; Heroes Stop Plan, but Villain slips away to come up with New Plan; repeat. The only comics I ever read as a kid were _Tales from the Crypt_, _Vault of Horror_, _Haunt of Fear_, and such; I Don't Do The Four-Color Ethos.) For that error, I make a very public apology, not just to you, but to all.

On Dreg Vehicles -- I have a variant on the _Rat Patrol Special_ from _C&C_:

Pickup, Standard chassis, Light suspension, Super power plant, 4 Standard tires, Driver, Passenger, Heavy Rocket in 15 Heavy Rockets in remaining spaces, Pintle Mount, Sunroof, Metal Armor: F5, L4, R4, B4, T1, U1, 4 2-pt Metal Wheelguards, Acceleration 5, Top Speed 102.5, HC -1, 6470 lbs., $9195

The Passenger fires a HR, then has to dive into the main body of the unit to reload the PM. Very Dreg-y. :)
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Last edited by 43Supporter; 09-18-2021 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 09-20-2021, 01:21 PM   #53
juris
 
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Default Re: Silly Cars

The dreg idea is cool but it'd be exploited so bad for larger vehicles - a bunch of dreg pickups with 4 jury rigged RRs front and a barely-there jury rigged gas engine - nightmare. Also, it would be a pain in the butt to do the math
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Old 09-20-2021, 03:21 PM   #54
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Silly Cars

It's fairly easy and it's not like maths isn't a significant part of the game anyway. Just design the vehicle as normal, knock off a few DP's and a calculate the savings. If you want to keep it easy just do it for components with 4 or more DPs and knock 3 off and save half the cost on that component. RR is a good choice (as are AC, ATG and BC). Of course a TG with 5 DP remaining for $1000 is a steal but fully loaded the ammo costs as much as the gun.

Not all things will be worth while. Very few weapons are worth knocking down, but if you can find one with 4 DP to start with knocking it down to 1 means it's half it's unloaded cost (ammo costs remain the same of course). If a component doesn't have DPs then you can't knock it down.

In my campaigns these are a referees toy. My players had the option to buy a Boy Scout Commando Corps scrapheap challenge Joseph Special (with every component barely functional) but they didn't want to risk it even though the choice was go to battle one vehicle down.

I tend to design down to a budget so there won't be a vehicle with a JR'd weapon and an HRSWC as the computer would be the first thing sold. You need to value your gangers even less than the vehicles (you can breed replacement gangers, vehicles need parts).
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Old 09-20-2021, 05:13 PM   #55
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Silly Cars

Ok on another tack.

How many MMLs can you get onto a target in a single volley.

4th of July by Swordtart:
X-Hvy Trike; Extra Heavy chassis; Heavy suspension;
Super Trike PP w/PCs, SCs,
HTMs, Overdrive; 3 Solid tires, HD Shocks.
Driver w/BA+ABV.
3xMicromissile Launcher w/30xArmor Piercing F;
3xMicromissile Launcher w/30xArmor Piercing L;
3xMicromissile Launcher w/30xArmor Piercing R;
4xLink;
Hi-Res Computer; Ejection Seat;
155 pts. Plastic (F: 30 R: 30 L: 30 B: 25 T: 25 U: 15);
1x10 pt. Plastic Guards F; 2x10 pt. Plastic Hubs, 2x10 pt. Plastic Guards B. Cost: $28,205, Wgt: 4,138,
HC: 2, Top Speed: 90 (67.5, 110), Accel: 5 (10, 2.5).

Adjust if you think trikes needs smart links to link side weapons to front arc. Otherwise each MML bank is linked to the others in that arc. The final link links side and front weapons.

A very expensive way to deliver not much firepower. On the other hand we are talking potentially 9D+9 per second and 90D+90 all together (max 630, Av 405, Min 180). For anti-cyclist or anti-pedestrian keep the MLLs explosive and scatter the shots all over.

Another option is to use HRs instead. With only 9 shots laser guidance becomes more credible and whilst the maximum damage yield is less than the MML version (Max 189, av 121.5, min 54) you get it all in one massive chunk. With the armour on the trike, shoot and scoot is probably a better option, you only have to last 3 turns (2 to walk in the laser and the hopefully devastating volley on the last).

Last edited by swordtart; 09-21-2021 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 09-21-2021, 04:37 PM   #56
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Default Re: Silly Cars

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How many MMLs can you get onto a target in a single volley.
Actually, I got to see a similar design in action -- Mid with something like 6 MMLs (turret, plus sponsons) using AP ammo.

Unfortunately for the designer, he entered it into an arena with my _CHP-3R_ pickup design -- the one with at least 7 points of Metal on each main facing.

Did not manage to do so much as knock off a single point of armor.

(This event is infamous in NOVA folklore: I took out all three of the other players, and took zero damage myself -- the only recorded "perfect game" in NOVA history, and so far as I know the only "perfect game" *EVER*....)
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Old 09-22-2021, 02:37 AM   #57
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Actually, I got to see a similar design in action -- Mid with something like 6 MMLs (turret, plus sponsons) using AP ammo.

Unfortunately for the designer, he entered it into an arena with my _CHP-3R_ pickup design -- the one with at least 7 points of Metal on each main facing.

Did not manage to do so much as knock off a single point of armor.

(This event is infamous in NOVA folklore: I took out all three of the other players, and took zero damage myself -- the only recorded "perfect game" in NOVA history, and so far as I know the only "perfect game" *EVER*....)
Personally I would tend to avoid AP with 1D weapons since metal armour is always a possibility. 2D +2 will can usually penetrate all but the toughest metal but as you say 1D+1 will bounce off most metal. It also makes them less effective vs. Bikes, Pedestrians etc as the burst effect does as much damage as the weapon itself. For the risk of being useless +1 damage just isn't worth it.

To be fair I think thus design was based on when metal armour was less prevalent in our games, which is why it is in this thread. It fits the brief of a silly design since it is a one-trick pony.
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Old 09-22-2021, 08:56 AM   #58
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To be fair I think thus design was based on when metal armour was less prevalent in our games, which is why it is in this thread. It fits the brief of a silly design since it is a one-trick pony.
That was the Conundrum back-when: Past about Div. 10, HESH-RRs and -BCs were de rigeur, which would absolutely *shred* Metal armor; so Metal armor was not often seen above Div. 10, which obviated the need to load HESH in RRs and BCs in the first place. (Oddly, Div. 5 was where Metal armor came into its own -- it brought the cost down, and there were few-to-no Metal-shredder guns available; my _INS_-series Subcompacts flat annihilated the competition in NOVA, with 5-6 pts. Metal on the main facings.)
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Old 09-22-2021, 12:01 PM   #59
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Default Re: Silly Cars

I just remember that VG2 chopper with 4 front facing VFRPs explicitly designed to remove the crazy amount of metal armor most choppers had. That pre-dated HESH. But the best way to remove metal is a low speed ram. A 15 point ram will knock off 3 points of metal, which is all you need in most cases. Bumper spikes are very useful for this.

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That was the Conundrum back-when: Past about Div. 10, HESH-RRs and -BCs were de rigeur, which would absolutely *shred* Metal armor; so Metal armor was not often seen above Div. 10, which obviated the need to load HESH in RRs and BCs in the first place. (Oddly, Div. 5 was where Metal armor came into its own -- it brought the cost down, and there were few-to-no Metal-shredder guns available; my _INS_-series Subcompacts flat annihilated the competition in NOVA, with 5-6 pts. Metal on the main facings.)
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Old 09-23-2021, 01:43 AM   #60
swordtart
 
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Default Re: Silly Cars

Juris:
Typo I think. A 15 point ram will knock off 5 points of metal (subject to the maximum of half the current armour), which as you say is plenty.

I like bumper spikes, they are underused in my opinion. As you also apply the DM of the vehicle to bumper spike damage a rig with bumper spikes can trash smaller vehicles with such low speed collisions that it doesn't even take any itself. A 5mph collision does only 1d-4 (minimum 1 average 1) but 1d-4 + 1d6 (not 2d6-4) with a bumper spike averages 4.5 damage. A fully loaded rig might have a DM of 20.

Arranging that low speed collision can be difficult, but we also use the confetti rule and reduce the damage taken by the vehicle that isn't destroyed pro-rata. If you confetti after taking 50 points of say 100 and your DM is 2 and their DM is 5 then they only take the base 10 points that was needed to smash you to powder multiplied by your DM. They would therefore take 20 points.

You should perhaps apply the bumper spike damage first if you are using confetti and the pro-rata system as it is separate damage (unlike ram plate damage which just multiplies the ram damage) but I am not sure it ever came up in our games so we never argued it out.

Last edited by swordtart; 09-23-2021 at 01:53 AM.
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