Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars > Car Wars Old Editions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-31-2022, 12:59 PM   #141
juris
 
juris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Default Re: Silly Cars

The CWC 2.5 doesn't say 'each' cell takes 1 space minimum.

It says extra cells increase the plant's spaces by 10% (rounded up). So it's the plant that increases in space, not the extra power cells. Extra power cells aren't like a fire extinguisher.

Point - Sword. A small cycle powerplant could take 10 extra power cells - just one extra space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Got a citation for that Racer.

CVWD rounds all extra cells together, if Combat Garage does as well then it indicates there is an alternative interpretation.



Since gaining extra range has marginal benefit in the vast majority of games, I am disinclined to say that to increase the range of a 1 space cycle plant by 50% you need to fit something the same size as the plant unless someone can show a good argument to the contrary.
juris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 01:15 PM   #142
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
Default Re: Silly Cars

It's another case of badly worded rules text causing ambiguity in the rules .

I designed my Tourer 400 in 1989/90 - Hvy Cycle , Medium Power Plant w/2 Extra Power Cells (3 Spaces) , OR or Radial Tires , Cyclist , Light Laser F etc & it worked well as a long range Scout or touring bike in many games throughout the nineties . As a Super Trike & the PP used were same size , it wasn't hard to squeeze it into a Hvy Cycle frame .

An updated Military version designed on Combat Garage & according to the builder PP takes up only 1.2 Spaces & allows Component Armour around PP , Cyclist & Front LMG . Not 100% sure this is right even though it's improvement on original 'design rules' ... Even allows for a Vehicle Camera or IRSS . Just a bit of an oddity .

Using same builder , you can get about 30 Extra Power Cells in a X-Hvy Trike with Super Cycle PP ... even more odd & that REALLY doesn't seem right ....
*shrugs*
__________________
Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!!
The Resident Brit .
Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2022, 04:39 PM   #143
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Silly Cars

You could put 30 extra cells in a trike, but why would you bother.

My example is in this section for a reason. Any sensible design probably doesn't need any extra cells at all. There are far better things to use you space and weight allocation for.

We average a combat encounter every 50 miles in the trucking campaign. Rarely will one of our vehicles go more than 100 miles before it needs significant repairs that take far longer and cost far more than a recharge. A recharge also allows a sensible break from driving.

Fuel tank capacity is a big deal for large gas plants as the MPG is punishing and the gallon capacity to Spaces ratio of fuel tanks is pitiful. Since bigger electric plants come with more PUs built in it isn't really an issue. I can't find any comment about electric mileage or extra cells in ADQ so I presume it is another of those aspects that just doesn't figure in the vast majority of other players games.

Fun to explore, but whatever ruling you use isn't going to break the game (or apparently invalidate any published design).

Last edited by swordtart; 06-05-2022 at 04:43 PM.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2022, 01:48 PM   #144
juris
 
juris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Default Re: Silly Cars

Not only that but as a practical matter any place that's 300+ miles between power stations is pretty much a dead zone. The only reason for extra power cells is if you wanted to explore such a region for rp purposes (which could be cool).

You could also just put a solar panel on a small trike or car - I'd allow it to recharge other vehicles (solar panels are allowed on small vehicles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
Y

We average a combat encounter every 50 miles in the trucking campaign. Rarely will one of our vehicles go more than 100 miles before it needs significant repairs that take far longer and cost far more than a recharge. A recharge also allows a sensible break from driving.

.
juris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2022, 04:53 AM   #145
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Silly Cars

We found overdrive to be very effective in extending range (and only $400 for a cycle and no weight or space).

Streamlining and for cycles a cycle shell which stacks with the vehicle streamlining means 20% lower power consumption (or at worst 19% depending on how you calculate the two working together).

A slightly more sensible design (that actually has a gun!!!)

Long Ranger by Swordtart
Medium Cycle; Streamlining; Cycle chassis;
Heavy suspension; HD Shocks;
Medium Cycle PP w/ Overdrive
2 PR tires.
Driver.
Machine Gun w/20xStandard.
10 pt. Plastic Windshell.
26 pts. Plastic (F: 16 R: 0 L: 0 B: 10 T: 0 U: 0).
Cost: $5,836, Wgt: 1,090
HC: 2 (3), Top Speed: 152.5, Accel: 10.

The base plant has 75 PUs and this would give a range of 254 miles at a road speed of 60 (to take advantage of the shells HC bonus) but overdrive and the streamlining/windshell increases this to around 470 which is about as good as two extra sets of power cells (and you would have to lose the shell and the streamlining to fit it in).

There is useful economy here as well. A full recharge is only $15 for this model (under 4c per mile) but one with 2 extra power cells would cost $45 to recharge (almost 9c per mile).

Last edited by swordtart; 06-07-2022 at 05:23 AM.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2022, 05:04 PM   #146
Racer
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, UK
Default Re: Silly Cars

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
You could put 30 extra cells in a trike, but why would you bother.
EXACTLY .


During a Coast-to-Coast wager scenario - with winner decided on least cash used & fastest time etc - I used a Small Microplane with 15 Gallon internal Fuel & three 22 Gallon Streamlined Drop Tanks .
It could cross the Continental US at low speed without landing ... Put out GM threw a sky bandit at me & had to dump my tanks around the area of the Great Lakes . Damaged the bandit enough to get away & highjinked a refueling of gas by landing at a Dueltrack & completed the mission in just over 57 hours (with two sleep stops) . Others took over a week & slapped their heads when the found what I'd done (each player played GM separately over his summer holiday away from his job in a school) . Most spent $50K to $100K+ - one spent about $14K with his long range Trike , which got wreaked offroad about 1/3 of the way .
Microplane & other expenses cost me around $36K - I could have used a Custom Gas Engine & got there faster (ADQ 10/2 & GM used them & he was okay for players to use them as scenario had four gaming months time to prepare ) but I went with normal 100 Cu. Inch Gas Engine & stuck with lower speed to reduce cost etc .

GM had never considered an aerial route as we was used to 200 Mile range of Helicopters . Airships were too costly , slow & vulnerable to being spotted for ambush . A Gas Powered Plane/Microplane hadn't occurred to him ...

Road Atlas Three has long range Truck Rig race & that has many ideas that can be used in long distance games .
__________________
Five Gauss Guns on a Camper !!!
The Resident Brit .

Last edited by Racer; 06-07-2022 at 05:08 PM.
Racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2022, 01:29 AM   #147
swordtart
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Silly Cars

This discussion wasn't really whether you would want to put 30 fuel cells in a Trike, but whether you legally could.

This conversation started as I proposed a small cycle plant with extra power cells as an alternative to multiple laser batteries.

With respect to your road trip, I think you were lucky to get only a single encounter in 3 days. You should have been facing the same threat as the ground vehicles. If air travel is so much safer and quicker, why aren't all the couriers using microplanes? The game isn't about that so rather than assume it would be easier you should assume it would be harder. You should be playing against the game environment not the GM, if you are going to try something the game environment isn't geared up for the GM needs to do more prep work.

Not everything needs to be combat (but don't underestimate the number of groundlings that will fire at you just for the hell of it - the Goodyear airship supposedly picks up 50 bullet holes year in a supposedly benign environment). Weather is probably your biggest challenge, particularly wind speed and direction.

Last edited by swordtart; 06-08-2022 at 01:47 AM.
swordtart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2022, 01:12 PM   #148
juris
 
juris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: CA
Default Re: Silly Cars

Agree overdrive is ridiculously powerful for the cost (usually only $400). It's pretty much mandatory for every road vehicle. You just have to link it to your guns so you can turn it off when combat starts. I will say it shouldn't add 20 mph to your top speed - this is something a lot of vehicles exploit. It's good enough just saving power/fuel consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swordtart View Post
We found overdrive to be very effective in extending range (and only $400 for a cycle and no weight or space).

.
juris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.