Kicking Distance

[OsoRojo]

So how far can a bugbear kick a flaming zombie corpse?

Yes, this actually came up this past weekend in a game. I obviously fudged it for cinematic effect, but went back later to try and figure out the real answer. I can't seem to find much reference to kicking other than damage. It IS referenced in the section on physical feats near throwing, but I have trouble believing throwing and kicking distances are the same.

Am I missing something, or is this not covered anywhere?
Any suggestions on how to handle kicking distances (especially for large objects)?

Thanks!

OsoRojo

[Kromm]

In effect, kicks are treated as punches with -2 to hit but +1 to damage (which, since this is thrust damage, corresponds to +2 to ST). Just work it out as a throw, at -2 to DX and +2 to ST. I doubt that the Throwing skill would help, but I'd let Sports (Football) or similar replace that, and grant comparable bonuses to ST for distance.

[kdtipa]

I don't have my books with me, but realistically a 200 pound humanoid kicking the body of another 200 pound humanoid isn't going to make it go very far.

You could use the knockback rules. They're specific to HT score or HP score, but for an average human, you get knocked back 1 yard for every 8 points of damage you take (at least from the right damage types).

edit: I didn't get my answer in quickly enough... but being that I'm just a fan of GURPS compared to a line editor, I'd probably go with Kromm's answer.

[Bruno]

I'd really imagine the net effect would be a crunching sound of zombie ribs breaking, and possibly the bugbear getting its foot caught in the decaying ribcage. Corpses (especially zombie corpses) are not footballs at all.

People kick other people who are on the ground all the time (sans fire usually) - this is part of a brawl, generally the part where it's degenerated into a curb-stomp type exercise. Kicking people in the ribs doesn't significantly move them, it just hurts.

[OsoRojo]

Ok, so bugbear (which I see as a heavily muscled humanoid, probably on the order of 250 to 275... I weigh 270 and wear it fairly well at 6'1") with strength 14 is bumped to 16 and figure it all out (bear with me... very new to GURPS).

BL for ST 16 (after the bump... 14 + 2) is 51 and change. Throwing distance weight ratio is weight / BL for a rounded weight ratio of 2.5 assuming a 120 pound emaciated zombie. This corresponds to .25 * ST (adjusted I assume) of 16 for a total distance of 4 yards.

Background: Zombie was incapacitated and slumped in a corridor against the wall. Bugbear was kicking him (in a panic) specifically to move him out of the way. I 'guestimated' 3 yards given the immobile target and weight discrepancy. While most kicks don't move a target very far, I know from experience, that it can be done (don't ask). With a running start, I could see a heavily muscled bugbear punt an emaciated coprse a good little distance. Probably not very high mind you, but it would slide a long way.

Do the calculations look right Kromm?

Thanks everybody! Been loving GURPS for awhile for the completeness and realistic nature, and this is just another shining example of why!

[Maz]

In Martial Arts (don't remember the page) it states that any action you can do with hands you can do with legs at +2 ST -2 DX.

so kicking distance = throwing distance but at +2 to ST= greater distance and -2 DX= less chance to hit where your aiming.

[edit]And was ninjaed by 4 others, gah, sorry for slow posting speed >.<]

[OsoRojo]

Originally Posted by Maz

In Martial Arts (don't remember the page) it states that any action you can do with hands you can do with legs at +2 ST -2 DX.

so kicking distance = throwing distance but at +2 to ST= greater distance and -2 DX= less chance to hit where your aiming.

[edit]And was ninjaed by 4 others, gah, sorry for slow posting speed >.<]

Don't apologize. All posts add a little bit for my understanding of the rules, and even source book references! Didn't realize this was in MA! Thanks!

[kdtipa]

Originally Posted by Bruno

I'd really imagine the net effect would be a crunching sound of zombie ribs breaking, and possibly the bugbear getting its foot caught in the decaying ribcage. Corpses (especially zombie corpses) are not footballs at all.

People kick other people who are on the ground all the time (sans fire usually) - this is part of a brawl, generally the part where it's degenerated into a curb-stomp type exercise. Kicking people in the ribs doesn't significantly move them, it just hurts.

I think I like this answer the best. A standing person getting kicked might get knocked back per the knock back rules, but a limp body with lots of friction on the ground really isn't going to move much when kicked. Might shift an inch or two.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

I think I like this answer the best. A standing person getting kicked might get knocked back per the knock back rules, but a limp body with lots of friction on the ground really isn't going to move much when kicked. Might shift an inch or two.

I think that depends on whether you're just putting the boot in, or are actually going for distance. If you're kicking something that doesn't roll well for distance, you're going to need to deliberately get it into the air.

Hm. Throwing an object normally will first require at least one Ready maneuver to pick it up. Obviously it's possible to kick something away from you with no setup, but it probably shouldn't be fully equivalent to a throw if you haven't taken some setup time.


Tangentially, a person standing up probably has much the same friction on the ground as a person prone. However, their higher center of mass means that you can more easily make them either lose contact with the ground entirely, or stumble backwards and not slow down as fast as sliding along the ground would allow.

[kdtipa]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Tangentially, a person standing up probably has much the same friction on the ground as a person prone. However, their higher center of mass means that you can more easily make them either lose contact with the ground entirely, or stumble backwards and not slow down as fast as sliding along the ground would allow.

true... I hurried. But I do think that regardless of the explanation, a corpse (sack of potatoes, sack of rock salt, etc) wouldn't move nearly as far as something you throw. There are things designed to go far when you kick them (soccer ball), but get a slab of roof tiles from the hardware store and try kicking it. Then try picking it up and tossing it. I bet kicking distance (on a "normal" surface) is best measured in a unit like inches, where the throw could be yards (or at least feet) depending on your strength.