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Old 03-17-2023, 06:39 PM   #101
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Default Re: TL9 Heavy Tank

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
Its also likely that some of the tanks that tossed their turrets were abandoned with fuel and munitions inside then demolished. A team of guys and gals with explosives and antitank weapons should be able to make any tank explode if its parked in a field somewhere. But getting back to the OP, tank designers seem to agree that future tanks will be autoloaded, the details of where the ammo is stored are probably beyond the scope of a GURPS book.
Something like half of the Russian tank losses have been to abandonment, likely due to lack of fuel. Which reminds me: trucks win wars. The debate over which country has better tanks or guns or planes tends to crowd out that none of that stuff can do anything, if it's not supplied. And trucks do the supplying.
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Old 03-17-2023, 07:22 PM   #102
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And the British, and everybody who uses the Leopard II.
While my network of tankers is not very big, I have not actually heard that argument from British or European tankers just Americans (well, Irish-Americans) like Nicholas Moran. I think most NATO tanks have a loader because they were designed during the Cold War when actually existing autoloaders had problems.

The KF51 Panther will have a two-man turret crew, they are debating whether to have one or two crew in the hull. Maybe there is subtext that the fourth man would be helpful for maintenance and perimeter defense and redundancy if someone gets sick / injured, not sure.
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Old 03-17-2023, 08:16 PM   #103
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Default Re: TL9 Heavy Tank

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Something like half of the Russian tank losses have been to abandonment, likely due to lack of fuel. Which reminds me: trucks win wars. The debate over which country has better tanks or guns or planes tends to crowd out that none of that stuff can do anything, if it's not supplied. And trucks do the supplying.
The trucks don't do the supplying if the weapons don't stop the other side from killing them, though. Professionals may study logistics, but logistics isn't just a question of having vehicles.
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Old 03-17-2023, 09:23 PM   #104
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Default Re: TL9 Heavy Tank

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The trucks don't do the supplying if the weapons don't stop the other side from killing them, though. Professionals may study logistics, but logistics isn't just a question of having vehicles.
The Russians have quite a number of problems. The arguments (whether they eventually 'win' or 'lose') over which ones were the most criticial will likely go on for years.

Recently I have heard that the 'special military operation' was under the auspices of the FSB and that the military was brought into the planning late, possibly as late as after the operation had already started.

I wouldn't have thought something like that would be possible.

Then I remembered:

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“You can't make anything idiot proof because idiots are so ingenious.” -Ron Burns
Strange times...
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Old 03-17-2023, 10:52 PM   #105
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Recently I have heard that the 'special military operation' was under the auspices of the FSB and that the military was brought into the planning late, possibly as late as after the operation had already started.

I wouldn't have thought something like that would be possible.
You might want to read up on the planning that went into the invasion of Grenada by the USA and how that was done, and who was involved and when. It was... not great.
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Old 03-17-2023, 11:14 PM   #106
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You might want to read up on the planning that went into the invasion of Grenada by the USA and how that was done, and who was involved and when. It was... not great.
No it was not good at all. However in no way does Grenada resemble Ukraine. In no rational universe would any amount of FUBAR or SNAFU cause 'failure' for the Grenada operation, just the cost of the photo op.
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Old 03-18-2023, 06:43 AM   #107
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No it was not good at all. However in no way does Grenada resemble Ukraine. In no rational universe would and amount of FUBAR or SNAFU cause 'failure' for the Grenada operation, just the cost of the photo op.
That's in large part because of the force imbalance there, though. I mean, about the only thing that could've gone worse would've been if the landings had been on the wrong island.
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Old 03-18-2023, 09:20 AM   #108
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That's in large part because of the force imbalance there, though. I mean, about the only thing that could've gone worse would've been if the landings had been on the wrong island.
Force Imbalance, size of target, economic self-sufficiency of target, diplomatic position of the 'initiating' power, the differences between the two are legion.

The shall we say 'casual' approach to the military art in both cases is certainly notable however.
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Old 03-18-2023, 10:16 AM   #109
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SNIP

The KF51 Panther will have a two-man turret crew, they are debating whether to have one or two crew in the hull. Maybe there is subtext that the fourth man would be helpful for maintenance and perimeter defense and redundancy if someone gets sick / injured, not sure.
As far is I know there are 3 man needed to operate the tank fully no more. The 4th is a option to operate drones, do specialist stuff and such things.

By the way all stations shall be able to switch quickly to every other function. Just in case someone or a station is damaged or injured.

So theoretically anyone including number 4 can take over every job.

While the tank has a coaxial heavy MG, the official infos about drones and anti drone measures are quite scarce. I couldn´t find a info if the turret get´s a automated turret as weapon station. Which is much likely and necessary in modern battle fields.
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Old 03-18-2023, 11:11 AM   #110
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By the way all stations shall be able to switch quickly to every other function. Just in case someone or a station is damaged or injured.
I think that's fairly optimistic. Good controls for operating a gun are not the same as good controls for driving a tank, especially once you've made them simple and (theoretically) soldier-proof.
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