GURPS Powers: Enhanced Senses

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by whswhs

The fact that Eye for Distance doesn't provide that +3 hardly means it can't be included in a more costly ability that does.

Some traits make other traits redundant. This one seems to be the case.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Some traits make other traits redundant. This one seems to be the case.

That may be correct; I thought Kromm said otherwise, but as I've noted, I may have misunderstood the point he was making. The only point I was making was that your argument that Might want to drop out Eye for Distance, because Kromm clarified that it does not provide a +3 of a precise rangefinder is not valid on its own merits.

[Irioth]

Originally Posted by whswhs

My copy of Bio-Tech lists it not under Sensory Modifications, but under Transformations, which is used for extreme modifications that go beyond the usual range of biological possibility, at least for anything human in form; p. 61 specifies that such changes are "perhaps more realistically achievable through exotic nanotech than with 'genetic engineering.'" I based the Enhanced Senses abilities as closely as I could on documented sensory functions of actual animals, and there are no animals that have the wide spectral range of Hyperspectral Vision; there are some that can see into the UV and some that can see into the NIR, but no eyes work for the thermal IR, partly because the materials of biological lenses don't refract those wavelengths efficiently. (Pit vipers and vampire bats have what amount to pinhole IR cameras.)

Inclusion of Hyperspectral Vision among the extreme modifications of Transformations only does seem justified insofar the Advantage is bought with either or both of the expanded band enhancements. To "see" that much of a vastly extended spectrum may indeed require exotic nanotech means.

However this does not really seem the case for basic Hyperspectral Vision, which means a visible spectrum from UV to thermal infrared with the likely addition of improved night vision and finer color discrimination. Advanced genetic engineering seems entirely capable of providing such. Biological enhancements to the eyes as possessed by various animals may bestow UV sight, near infrared sight, improved color vision (tetrachromatism, although in combination with the UV and NIR pigments, it would actually be esachromatism at the very least), night vision, and telescopic vision. A different kind of sense organ, such as the biological IR pinhole cameras pit vipers possess, may provide for thermal infrared.

There does not seem to be any good reason why advanced genetic engineering should not be able to bestow all of those enhancements to the same individual or bioroid type. Pretty much the same way sufficiently advanced genegineering would allow to combine the biological enhancements for Discriminatory Hearing, Precise Hearing, Parabolic Hearing, Infrasonic Hearing, and Ultrasonic Hearing. It is entirely irrelevant no animal species has all of those abilities at once since a major point of genetic engineering is precisely the ability to pick, choose, and mix.

You could do this as a more modest variant on Omnivision, which is a power under Supersenses; I think that's the appropriate place for any form of Hyperspectral Vision. Or you could make up a suitable Sensory Implants ability. Either of those would be plausible places for such a power, if you want it in your campaign. And after all, this book isn't a complete compendium of every possible sensory ability; it's designed to hit the high points and to demonstrate how powers can be built.

Agreed. A scaled-down version of Omnivision w/o the band enhancements seems the appropriate way to provide Hyperspectral Vision for Enhanced Senses and Sensory Implants.

[Flyndaran]

I think the complexity of extended visual spectra depends on how many "colors" UV and Infrared comprise. Humans have three for visible light, so there's no reason to assume all of air transparent UV or Infrared should be single receptor types each.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Irioth

However this does not really seem the case for basic Hyperspectral Vision, which means a visible spectrum from UV to thermal infrared with the likely addition of improved night vision and finer color discrimination. Advanced genetic engineering seems entirely capable of providing such. Biological enhancements to the eyes as possessed by various animals may bestow UV sight, near infrared sight, improved color vision (tetrachromatism, although in combination with the UV and NIR pigments, it would actually be esachromatism at the very least), night vision, and telescopic vision. A different kind of sense organ, such as the biological IR pinhole cameras pit vipers possess, may provide for thermal infrared.

One set of eyes cannot possibly have a suitable refractive index for that range. In fact, biological lenses are not effective at all in refracting thermal infrared. There are no animals whose eyes see thermal infrared; pit vipers can perceive thermal infrared, but they do it with separate organs, the pits, which have a very simple structure with no lenses, amounting to that of pinhole cameras. There are animals whose eyes can see NIR, but there's a wide gap between NIR and thermal infrared where animal sensors basically don't exist.

So (a) I don't believe in it as a biologically realistic ability, even one attained by combining biologically realistic abilities; (b) it would require radical transformation to produce an organism with suitable structures; (c) even if in my judgment what you're asking for were plausible, I couldn't write up every ability for this book.

If you really want such an ability, Kromm's lightning bolts will not smite you from on high for making one up.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

One set of eyes cannot possibly have a suitable refractive index for that range.

While true, there is no particular requirement that hyperspectral vision involves only one set of eyes (having thermal infrared at all is somewhat unlikely; then again, the real-world system called hyperspectral imaging doesn't have thermal IR anyway. What would the value of Hyperspectral (NIR-NUV only) be?).

Oh, here's a rules question: the Long enhancement (p8) makes your eyestalks longer, but what advantage or enhancement gives you eyestalks in the first place?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

While true, there is no particular requirement that hyperspectral vision involves only one set of eyes (having thermal infrared at all is somewhat unlikely; then again, the real-world system called hyperspectral imaging doesn't have thermal IR anyway. What would the value of Hyperspectral (NIR-NUV only) be?).

Why wouldn't it be just the value of NIR vision plus the value of UV vision? (I suppose you could define a separate ability that covered only near UV, but really it seems to me that in the usual terrestrial environment vacuum UV vision is worth nearly nothing.)

Is there any indication that the information from a snake's pits is integrated into "vision" neurologically? I mean, I've felt the heat of a fire on my face, but I didn't experience it as "seeing."

Of course, if real-world hyperspectral imaging systems don't use thermal IR, maybe we need a slightly different definition for the Sensory Implants version. It's not going to show you glowing surfaces for every mammal and bird in sight, after all, which seems kind of implied by the GURPS definition.

Oh, here's a rules question: the Long enhancement (p8) makes your eyestalks longer, but what advantage or enhancement gives you eyestalks in the first place?

I think it's part of 360° Vision. Though perhaps it could also be used as a modifier on Peripheral Vision? Maybe I should have written up Bugeyes as well as Feelers.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Of course, if real-world hyperspectral imaging systems don't use thermal IR, maybe we need a slightly different definition for the Sensory Implants version.

Real world hyperspectral imaging is super-enhanced color perception (hundreds or thousands of color channels, typically in the 0.4-2 micron range) and has very little to do with the GURPS advantage (as it provides neither thermal infrared nor night vision), which appears to be some sort of sensor fusion.

[NineDaysDead]

Here's a question for whswhs:

Originally Posted by Kromm

You're getting into questions for the author here

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Real world hyperspectral imaging is super-enhanced color perception (hundreds or thousands of color channels, typically in the 0.4-2 micron range) and has very little to do with the GURPS advantage (as it provides neither thermal infrared nor night vision), which appears to be some sort of sensor fusion.

That's interesting. So it's sort of like tetrachromatism, but with far more than four channels, and perhaps a bigger modifier for spotting color-related things.

A step in that direction might be to look at mantis shrimp, which have dodecachromatism. How much of a modifier is that? Perhaps it would be something like the bonuses for Discriminatory or Analyzing?

On the other hand, a mantis shrimp's retina has a one-dimensional strip for each of its twelve colors; it can't do the same kind of spatial imaging human eyes do. It's more like radar scanning. So maybe what they have is more like Detect Color with Precise and Analyzing?