broadening scope of Uncontrollable Trigger

[Plane]

Powers 106 says "item, not stress" but I'm wondering if this could be broadened into circumstances too.

Something like "when I shout" or "when I snap my fingers" wouldn't seem that "uncontrollable" (these are normally things you can choose to do or not do) and would only slightly limit your options (can't snap your fingers as a means of expressing yourself or compete in a finger-snapping competition ... can't shout out for help to help allies hear you)

The rarity of these might however change depending on other disadvantages... "Low Pain Threshold" for example creates the possibility you could cry out against your will (when injured) and a quirk like "habitually snaps fingers to punctuate every other sentence" would greatly limit your ability to speak to people without creating a risk of setting off your ability.

So it seems like if Uncontrollable Trigger were broadened to include "circumstance" (after all, isn't that what a full moon is, as much as it is an 'item'?) then any value it might give should depend on how frequently that circumstance would come up, possibly modified by how your other traits would influence that?

"When I cry out" for example, on someone with Low Pain Threshold, would be a lot less frequently if they had DR 100 for example, because the amount of things that could cause 1 HP of injury to them would be drastically reduced.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Plane

Powers 106 says "item, not stress" but I'm wondering if this could be broadened into circumstances too.

Originally Posted by Plane

Something like "when I shout" or "when I snap my fingers" wouldn't seem that "uncontrollable" (these are normally things you can choose to do or not do) and would only slightly limit your options

Any action which requires your conscious control shouldn't count as a trigger for Uncontrollable. An action which is generally under your control either isn't a limitation or is effectively an Occasional trigger.

Originally Posted by Plane

The rarity of these might however change depending on other disadvantages... "Low Pain Threshold" for example creates the possibility you could cry out against your will (when injured) and a quirk like "habitually snaps fingers to punctuate every other sentence" would greatly limit your ability to speak to people without creating a risk of setting off your ability.

Exactly. This is where GM judgment comes in. A character with LPT and DR 100 is going to experience pain so rarely that they don't have any meaningful limitation. A character with an otherwise harmless Quirk or OPH will have a real limitation if their behavior regularly sets off uncontrollable powers. I'd call it "Occasional" if the character must make an IQ or Will roll to avoid accidentally triggering their power.

Originally Posted by Plane

So it seems like if Uncontrollable Trigger were broadened to include "circumstance" (after all, isn't that what a full moon is, as much as it is an 'item'?) then any value it might give should depend on how frequently that circumstance would come up, possibly modified by how your other traits would influence that?

This is a clever way to expand the Uncontrollable limitation which certainly seems in keeping with the rules.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

A character with an otherwise harmless Quirk or OPH will have a real limitation if their behavior regularly sets off uncontrollable powers.

I'd call it "Occasional" if the character must make an IQ or Will roll to avoid accidentally triggering their power.

One major shift from 3e to 4e that I recall is the replacement of will rolls with 'self control rolls' for certain asterisked mental disads (B120-121 explanation) which later got a x2.5 for "always" added in later books (zombies, powers for pricing affliction guarantees, etc)

B128 under Compulsive Behavior requires it waste time/money so I'm wondering if you could count "snaps fingers a lot" as doing that (it wastes time) as opposed to other odious habits (like just smelling bad, due to negligence, costs you no time)

Since it costs no money (unless you live in a society which fines you for finger-snapping) the pricing of CB would have to go by "how much trouble it is likely to get you into" which is probably minimal except for cases where it makes you audible (you're trying to be quiet) or recognizable ("the masked hero Teleportguy who stopped the robber was constantly snapping his fingers, just like that famous reporter Parker Pent!")

I'm guessing that might be lower than the usual base of -5, perhaps -2, so a x2.5 (always) would amount to -5 in the end for Compulsive Finger-Snapping at end of Sentences?

To emulate the classic system you could then take "Not Compulsion [5]" with something like "requires will roll -5%" and "reduced duration 1/6 -15%" reducing it to 4 points, which makes the net cost -1 (a quirk). The end result being that if you make a will roll then you can go 10 seconds without snapping your fingers.

Course if you fail your roll then you need to spend 1 FP trying not to snap them in the next 5 minutes (and can't avoid snapping them if under 3 FP)

Once we actually have this will roll in play, then since Uncontrollable Trigger also has a will roll (to prevent an ability going off when exposed to your trigger) then there is a two-tier process:

1) make a will roll to avoid compulsively snapping one's fingers
2) if it fails, your ability wants to trigger: make a 2nd will roll to prevent it triggering

This makes me wonder if there are ways to penalize the will rolls for uncontrollable...

Sort of like "Hard to Use" but the penalty only applies to will rolls to prevent unconscious use, but not voluntary activation rolls.

I could see someone who ALWAYS seems to teleport when they snap their fingers as having a penalty to such a roll where they could only avoid teleporting on a rare critical success.