Schrödinger's Hobgoblin infinite loop

[hcobb]

PC: I attack Hobgoblin A.
GM: Hobgoblin A changes his option to Defend. Hobgoblin B changes his option to Attack.
PC: Well then I attack Hobgoblin B.
GM: Hobgoblin B changes his option to Defend. Hobgoblin A changes his option to Attack.

Repeat as needed.

Fix is to change ITL 102 to read: "[When it is a figure's turn to act] , a player may change his mind about [the] figure’s option, as long as ..." and note that dodging and defending figures do not get a turn to act. Unless they're wizards. Cause wizards rewl, you know.

[larsdangly]

I don't get the premise; why do you think the player gets to change options after declaring? Also, hobgoblin B didn't need to declare anything the first time around - you don't say what you are doing until it is your turn, unless you wish to choose to defend or dodge at the moment you are targeted.

[hcobb]

If you let figures choose to defend at the moment they are attacked and then let the attacker change their own option in response you can get an infinite loop.

When is defend/dodge locked in and does everybody else in the combat know this?

[Skarg]

No, you don't get an infinite loop.

When a figure's adjDX comes up, they declare an action. Others can react to that action by changing their option (e.g. to Defend against it), but that does NOT mean the acting figure can then also change the action they are doing.

So it's:

PC: I attack Hobgoblin A.
GM: Hobgoblin A changes his option to Defend. Hobgoblin B changes his option to Attack.
PC: Well then I attack Hobgoblin B.
GM: No. You are attacking Hobgoblin A. You don't get to change an action you are in the middle of doing on your adjDX.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Skarg

When a figure's adjDX comes up, they declare an action. Others can react to that action by changing their option (e.g. to Defend against it), but that does NOT mean the acting figure can then also change the action they are doing.

Sure they can, anything otherwise is a house rule.

There is no infinite loop.
PC: I attack Hobgoblin A.
GM: If attacked, Hobgoblin A will Defend.
PC: Well then I attack Hobgoblin B.
GM: If attacked, Hobgoblin B will Defend.
PC: Hmm, this means I'm going to have to choose A or B and accept that the one I choose will Defend and the other won't. I can do that and it is no big deal.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by hcobb

When is defend/dodge locked in and does everybody else in the combat know this?

An attack happens when the dice are rolled, and until then nothing is locked in.

[larsdangly]

Is there some passage in the rules that makes you think a combatant should be allowed to change their declared option because someone defends or dodges in response to their attack? It wouldn't occur to me to put that on the table, and I've never had a player who pushed for that right.

[hcobb]

Key phrase is the lack of limits here:

ITL 102: "During a turn, a player may change
his mind about a figure’s option, as long as
• that figure has not yet acted, and
• that figure did not move too far to allow it to take the
new option."

Note no restrictions on number of times or when.

[Steve Plambeck]

Originally Posted by hcobb

If you let figures choose to defend at the moment they are attacked...

You don't "let" that happen, it happens because that's the rule.

Originally Posted by hcobb

... and then let the attacker change their own option in response....

Why on earth would you let them do that, when it's not the rule? The figure has picked it's action when it says it has. Its opportunity to pick something else has arrived, and the choice it names becomes past tense. You don't get two chances to pick an action, you only get one. The choice doesn't have to be made during movement or after movement up until it's adjDX comes up, but then it picks one action and is done.

Originally Posted by hcobb

When is defend/dodge locked in and does everybody else in the combat know this?

The defending figure has no need or requirement to declare Defend or Dodge until the attacker picks up their dice. That would be the deadline to let them know they are rolling 4d6 instead of 3d6, wouldn't it? No other cutoff point makes sense.

Originally Posted by Skarg

When a figure's adjDX comes up, they declare an action. Others can react to that action by changing their option (e.g. to Defend against it), but that does NOT mean the acting figure can then also change the action they are doing.

Exactly so. Nothing in this game ever happens simultaneously. There is a sequence. If it's the defender's turn to pick a defensive option, then by definition the attacker's turn to pick is over, done, and past.

[RobW]

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

There is a sequence. If it's the defender's turn to pick a defensive option, then by definition the attacker's turn to pick is over, done, and past.

A very passionate defense, but I still disagree. I don't believe the rules spell out such an explicit sequence on this point. I don't mind being proven wrong.

As I said above, I see nothing wrong with the attacker changing his target if his original target says they will defend if attacked. And then if not attacked, that original target is not obliged to defend. Fine. I don't see the rule claimed to be violated by playing this way. I can say with confidence that we've played that way for decades and never had an issue. There certainly is no infinite loop -- all our games finished. :)