Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2020, 11:54 AM   #11
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

I have a style, the Dog Brothers who are notable for not requiring Magery from their members. They just require Animal Empathy and "train" their applicants to acquire it in a process that involves spending a lot of time transformed into urban animals.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 09:43 PM   #12
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

The thing to keep at the back of your mind when discussing broad categories of GURPS MAGIC as it was originally written is this:

In the beginning, before Magery 0 as an advantage was created - you either had Magery 1, Magery 2, or Magery 3. The ONLY way you could cast a spell that didn't require Magery 1 - is if you were casting spells in a mana high zone and you were mundane. Otherwise, you started at Magery 1 to be able to cast spells in regions of less than Mana High.

That being said, with the advent of Magery 0 allowing for "mageborn" to cast spells that did not require Magery 1+, that opened up a lot of jobs for largely NPC mageborn characters.

Which brings me to my next point:

In the beginning (Ie GURPS 2nd edition on up), Magery was not something that normally could be improved save by means of Wishes or Godly intervention (Ie GM total control). The issue was contentious enough, that over time, GURPS 4e philosophy was "What ever the GM desires".

I've never really understood WHY players or GM's argued the point that the mere expenditure of experience points permits a magery 1 character to be capable as a magery 2 character. When you upgrade from 1 to 2 - what exactly happened? Did the mage character absorb a body of knowledge that permitted him to suddenly be capable of casting enchantment spells that he otherwise could not? Did the constant exercise of magic suddenly burst open some paths of resistance to being able to cast spells that the mage is now more capable?

If Magery is "knowledge" based - then it would be a skill. If it is an innate capability, one you have to be born with, then that implies something else. If it is a mystical set of muscles that can be made stronger and more capable by exercising the use of magical spell casting - then that is something else entirely. But if that were the case, you would expect that those who don't have magery at all, casting spells in a High Mana region, would acquire such an ability just by casting spells.

So - It might be best to decide what precisely Magery is before you go too far.

Me? It is an innate spiritual capability that one is either born with - or achieves by means of wishes or by means of a Diety like being who messes with your psyche. It doesn't improve with use, and per GURPS MAGIC, as well as GURPS GRIMOIRE (and because GURPS MAGIC for 4e largely uses those two sources without much in the way of changes, the concept remains largely the same) - magery can be LOST.

Me? I STILL use GURPS MAGIC, but largely use GURPS CLASSIC MAGIC rules over those of GURPS MAGIC for 4e. I also largely dislike the spells introduced in GURPS GRIMOIRE as more than a few were unbalanced (in my opinion) and didn't fit GURPS Classic Magic. EARTH TO METAL is one spell I don't permit in my games, and many of the newer spells introduced in GURPS MAGIC for 4e aren't viable either (Essential Wood for example).

I also have my own limitations for spells in GURPS MAGIC. For instance, repeated use of Bless Plants will lower the quality of the soil over time. ENLARGE has an additional limitation of Magery+1 for how many sizes one can enlarge something past its natural size.

I almost NEVER permit Magery 4 in my games, and never 5+ Why? Because Magery in the beginning, had the following effects:

Limited what spells you COULD cast. You will find Magery 0 spells, Magery 1, Magery 2, and Magery 3. What you won't find are Magery 4 spells etc.

Lowered the time required to study for a spell. Me? I permit a 10% reduction in time for every Magery level you have over that of the required Magery level. Thus, someone with Magery 3 studying a Magery 1 spell, gets a 20% redution in study time required for magery 1 spells. For magery 2 spells, only a 10% reduction in time, and for magery 3 spells - NO reduction in time. But that's just me...

GURPS BANESTORM remains for me, the worst GURPS Book I ever purchased. GURPS MAGIC for 4e, remains one of the biggest disappointments for me - despite my high enjoyment for GURPS MAGIC back in 3rd edition days. So - I'm still a fan of GURPS MAGIC for my fantasy campaigns - just not GURPS MAGIC for 4e.

**shrug**
hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 10:11 PM   #13
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

I generally avoid spell-based magic in favor of more flexible systems such RPM. By comparison spell-based magic is mediocre. For example, it is easy enough for RPM to give a character +3 IQ for a month, a feat that would be ludicrously difficult and expensive under spell-based magic. The magical items are also more balanced because they are gadgets.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 10:36 PM   #14
David Johnston2
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I generally avoid spell-based magic in favor of more flexible systems such RPM. By comparison spell-based magic is mediocre. For example, it is easy enough for RPM to give a character +3 IQ for a month,
Aaaand...that's a good thing? Speaking as a GM I really preferred to have some idea what the capabilities of my player characters were going to be.

Last edited by David Johnston2; 09-27-2020 at 12:16 AM.
David Johnston2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 10:46 PM   #15
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Many focus on fire for combat, I think Air is often a better choice.
Fire's good for mass destruction like burning down towns, because it's self-spreading. For fighting other people, especially those with any magical support it's fairly terrible because absolute resistance to fire is fairly easy.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2020, 11:11 PM   #16
Imbicatus
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Magery 1 is needed for missile spells, but a magery 0 character can get a lot of mileage out of create fire and flame jet.
Imbicatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 01:06 AM   #17
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
Magery 1 is needed for missile spells
not a prereq for concussion, and I think mods mentioned Magery 0 could still pump 1 energy into it somehow.

If we give +1 cap to mag 0 then +1 should be for all (ie 2 energy at mag 1, 3 at mag2, etC)
Plane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 05:25 AM   #18
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
not a prereq for concussion, and I think mods mentioned Magery 0 could still pump 1 energy into it somehow.

If we give +1 cap to mag 0 then +1 should be for all (ie 2 energy at mag 1, 3 at mag2, etC)
It'll be allowd because the rules for missiles spells say "On a success, you may invest one or more points of energy in the spell, to a maximum of a number of energy points equal to your Magery level" and "If you opt to enlarge your missile, you must concentrate for another second. At the end of your turn, you may invest more energy in the spell – anything from one point to points equal to
your Magery level."

At the very least this allows 1 point on the second turn, and a second point on the third turn. What it does not do is allow 1+Magery points per turn - at best is allows max(1, Magery) points per turn (to use a spreadsheet formula).

This is like saying that missiles spells have a cap of 1-point per turn, with Magery granting an increased cap, as normal.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 06:03 AM   #19
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I generally avoid spell-based magic in favor of more flexible systems such RPM. By comparison spell-based magic is mediocre. For example, it is easy enough for RPM to give a character +3 IQ for a month, a feat that would be ludicrously difficult and expensive under spell-based magic. The magical items are also more balanced because they are gadgets.
This is part of the reason I abandoned RPM: having one RPM mage in the party meant that basically every PC had +3 to everything all the time. Tons of bookkeeping for all those buffs, and the overall effect was to make everyone blandly more powerful. I just didn’t see the gain. There’s an irony here where you’d think a “flexible” system would lead to more creativity, but it’s the restriction of having to choose from the spell list that seems to breed more creativity in our group.
Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2020, 07:15 AM   #20
Stormcrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ronkonkoma, NY
Default Re: Spell categories by Magery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imbicatus View Post
Magery 1 is needed for missile spells
Ooh, that's very specific. Makes sense.
Stormcrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
magery, spells

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.