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Old 10-09-2021, 03:27 AM   #1
Zarathustraff
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Default Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum, novice in GURPS and an average RPG player from Italy.
I am starting this thread to find other nerds like me who loves the GURPS system and are nostalgic about the fantastic world of Pokémon.

What I want to do

I want to create a deep, elaborate and realistic Pokémon-like world.
The reason is simple: other Pokémon related RPGs may be good mechanically (I am thinking about PTU, PTA and Pokérole), but they lack realism.
They emulate the Pokémon games pretty well, but it feels really "fake". I want to build a system (based on GURPS) that translate the Pokémon world we find in games/mangas to our world (the setting and TL may very).

I guess, because of copywrites, that the final result must avoid all referencies to the actual Pokémon franchise, but it is only a "naming" problem that can be easily solved.
What is important is that we have in mind THE world of Pokémon as THE most fundamental source of ispiration as design process progress.

Why I need help

There are 2 reasons why I cannot do it alone.

The first is obvious: it is a colossus task to achieve.

The second reason is about my experience with the GURPS system.
After playing the classic fantasy RPGs, I looked for a game that had potentially everything you could imagine. So I fell in love with GURPS.

The mole of knowledge needed to play GURPS correctly is really big, and I am still reading the books to understand as much as possible. The problem is that I have never played an actual game, and I have not read and studied all the useful books (at least 10-15 books).

So, I need other guys or girls like me who are married with GURPS and love the world of Pokémon so much to be as crazy as I am to try to build this Pokémon-like game.

So what?

I think I gave a sufficient explanation of what I want to achieve.
Now it's your turn to take a step forward, raise your hand, and start interacting with me to find the ways to start and develop this project no one has yet achieved.

Tell me immediately if I am too crazy, or if there have been other good attempts in the past which can give a solid inspiration.
I don't even know if I can make a thread like this... but if I cannot do it here, I cannot do it elsewhere.

I hope to read about you... soon.
Have a nice day from Italy
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Old 10-09-2021, 08:54 AM   #2
johndallman
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Welcome! I don't know much about Pokémon, but I suspect you're going to have to draw a careful line between realistically-portrayed humans, and miniature monsters with weird powers. The latter seem unlikely to be realistic.

The little I do know about Pokémon comes from a parody in the form of an RPG: Pokethulhu Adventure Game.
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:20 AM   #3
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Did a quick check and found this on the net. https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1587185708625.pdf
Looks like it was written for 4th edition and might be something you could build from.
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:41 PM   #4
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Well, I'd say your first step is deciding how you want the game to play. Pokemon is primarily a single-player experience, with some multiplayer capacity (trading, dueling, etc), but tabletop RPG's are group experiences, so you'll need to have the setting allow for that. The Pokemon TV series has a cast of characters, but it generally just focuses on one at a time, with the others giving encouragement and running commentary, which is... less than satisfying for the players not involved in the duel. A setting like Pokemon where everyone fights in duels isn't terribly conducive to a tabletop RPG (unless combat is a small part of it, and the "meat" of the game are the non-combat interactions), so you may want to have your setting be one where trainers tend to work together.

Additionally, who are the players' avatars in the game? Do the players play as trainers, each with their own roster of monsters (which they'll expand during the game), or do they play as the monsters (in which case you could have a single trainer)? Or perhaps it's a combination - the players generally play as the trainers, but during battle they directly control the monsters, rather than controlling the trainer who tells the monsters what to do, with the GM handling the minutia of combat (defending, positioning, etc) as well as how the monsters interpret orders.

How do you intend to handle character advancement? Do you want a battle-exp system for the monsters to advance, or will they just gain a few character points at the end of each session? Do the trainers advance at all, and if so how do their attributes influence fights - indeed, do the trainers participate in fights, or just command their monsters?

Do you want to define most/all of the relevant monsters beforehand, or would you rather let players come up with their own monsters (both as their starting companions, and perhaps to submit to you to potentially bring in later, either as a wild monster to capture or available for trade from another trainer)?
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Old 10-09-2021, 02:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

I just want to echo what Varyon said.

Start with what kind of game you want. What themes? What feelings? What elements are necessary for it to BE POKEMON?

If you can list those out for us, we can probably help work some system around making them happen.

For instance, what about creature types and attack types? Sometimes creatures just seem to have attacks which match their type and it's like rock-paper-scissors squared. Sometimes, creatures can learn attacks from other types. How much of this do you need in the game? The PDF AOTA linked seems to have nothing about types at all.

In the shows/games, Pokemon are almost always readily recognized and identified by the protagonist/pokedex. Sometimes, there's a mystery. Do you you want any system behind that?

Healing seems to be hard in the field, but easy at a PokeCenter. But that's mostly a video game mechanic. How do you want that to work? In the abstract, we can help with the mechanics.

Pokemon in the wild sometimes want to be caught, sometimes refuse, and sometimes have to be battled. Do you want system behind that, or just narrative?

etc.
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Old 10-09-2021, 03:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by khorboth View Post
Healing seems to be hard in the field, but easy at a PokeCenter. But that's mostly a video game mechanic. How do you want that to work? In the abstract, we can help with the mechanics.
Item based healing is fairly limited in the beginning of each mainline Pokemon game, but once you get a bit further in (usually about the second or third gym) it becomes relatively easy to carry enough healing items to last to next gym. At least as long as you know the typings of what you're facing and how they interact with your current team of pokemon.

What's usually more limiting is the move charges (PP/Power Points), which require much rarer items to replenish in the wild.
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Old 10-09-2021, 04:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

The mechanics ar e easy. The realism part is whats hard.
I would treat Poikeman as spirits that normally are substantial but the balls can make them go insubstantial and thus hold them.
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Old 10-09-2021, 05:09 PM   #8
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTA View Post
Did a quick check and found this on the net. https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1587185708625.pdf
Looks like it was written for 4th edition and might be something you could build from.
Its a good stab but it makes the mistake of adding in attributes to its base templates. It would have been better off using Anon's Animal Album like templates
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Old 10-10-2021, 02:56 AM   #9
Zarathustraff
 
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Thank you to everyone, I didn't expect so many good quality replies.
There is a lot to say, mostly because I gave very broad information about the ideas I have in mind to build everything.

I will try to reply in the best possible way to most of the questions, advices and critics you made so far.

Realistic Monsters VS Miniature Pokémon

One of the most important prerequisites I want is to play a game that "feels" real. What I mean by that is to try to simulate a harsh world, where Pokémon are not small peluches to hug, but rather aggressive and wild monsters you can addomesticate and partner with.
You can think of Pokémon as actual monsters, someone with high powers (I will talk about Powers later).

One difference from normal "animals" is that they are more intelligent, ranging from what a human with IQ 6 would be to IQ 18.
The stupidest Pokémon's intelligence manifests as empathy towards humans, not as an actual sentient understanding.
Medium intelligent Pokémons can really understand humans, comunicate with them only by their actions. They understand vocal commands.

The setting of the world is all to build, but I imagine a real world of Pokémon more as "Attack on Titan" than a paradise for children: technology is not that strong to overcome Pokémon's powers. The only thing humanity can do (and is getting better and better) is to rely on Pokémons to survive.

Other sources of inspiration
I already made a lot of researches, and I read the file AOTA posted: https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1587185708625.pdf with very few interesting points.
I found it a very rough job, a "D&D styling" approach to adapt GURPS to Pokémon. Too simple. Too many irrealistic ideas.

But, at the very least, is something to bear in mind.

The Mechanics are really that easy?
I want to reply to Refplace.
Unfortunately mechanics are not easy, because they are tied to realism. It's easy to build mechanics copying the Pokémon games, but they are too far from realism to be used.

So, one of the first things to do is to redesign many mechanics to adapt them to the world of Pokémon.
I think the most usefull resources will be GURPS Powers and GURPS Alternative Attributes (I am still reading it).

Another really hard task is to regulate the interactions between humans and Pokémons: how to catch them, how to "store" them, how to control them, how to fight with them and so on.

I didn't say it before, and I will make it more clear later on: Players will play as Trainers NOT as Pokémons.
The in-game control of Pokémons will be mostly zero: you can interact with them, give orders, but you can't decide what they will do. It is the job of the GM to play the reactions of wild and Trainer's Pokémons.
Most of the time Pokémons will do what their Trainer ask them to do, so the Players can still "feel" and perceive the control. But it's essential to understand that Players plays as human-being, not as Pokémons.

The next step is to create (or to adapt) all the mechanics of the interaction between Trainers and Pokémons. That's not easy, and it requires a good balance between realism, a classical Pokémon-style game and playability.

The answer to Varyon's questions
I have to thank Varyon and khorboth for the numerous questions that need to be answered to create such a game.
They are really important, they are essential. Every answer would need a whole separate reply, but I can't do that.
What I can do is to give a "quick" answer to start building a direction we can follow. I will do it in the next reply, this one is already too long to read.
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Old 10-10-2021, 06:20 AM   #10
Zarathustraff
 
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Default Re: Realistic Pokémon-style GURPS mechanics

Now I want to answer Varyon and khorboth questions to have a (little) more precise idea of the shape of this game.

From a single-player game to a multy-player game
We have experienced Pokémon mostly through the console games, where we play as a (too) young trainer that explore the world alone. We have allies, but their help is sporadic and we play only for ourselves and only our decisions matter.

TTRPGs are meant to play as a group, you are right. But I do not find it difficult for the most part: social interactions, traveling and exploring.

Fights can be tricky.
The number of fighters doubles. Even though the Trainers themselves can battle (probably will have to), each of them will fight with a Pokémon.
There is a risk of making battles quite... long and tiring, expecially if everything is based on realism (avoiding over-semplifications).

A group of 4 Players against 3 opponent means having 14 Rounds in one Turn. I have never played GURPS, and I don't know if it is too much and it slows down the play.

One obvious solution is to limit Trainers action to mostly moving around the battlefield and giving orders to their Pokémons. It is reasonable for most Trainers since Pokémons are pretty powerful entities.
This create another problem: how to balance the difference in stregth between humans and Pokémons.

Character Advancement

I want the advancement of Trainers and Pokémons to be as realistic as possible. I have never liked D&D level-system for several reasons, and I think it is a shared feeling by many.

For this reason the advancement will be point-based.
You can gain points at the end of each session, by winning against other strong trainers or completing particular tasks. Same goes for Pokémons.

Being an adventurer will make Trainers undoubtly stronger intellectually, physically and technically. They can even discover particular powers, attuned with their nature and the Pokémon they raise.
With time Trainers can take an active role in fights without too many risks.

Pokémon Creation
I want a good balance between a standardized, accurate Pokémon design and unique Pokémon personalization.
In fact, every Bulbasaur shares these Attributes, Advantages, etc, with very little variation. But a well trained Pokémon is unique, and the Trainer has an active role on his developement.

Off-game it means that a Trainer can choose where to allocate the points earned by his Pokémon, in accordance with his experience in the adventure. (For example, if you use an Arcanine as a mount travelling for weeks, it makes sense to use points to increse his ST or HT, but not to increase his IQ or learn a Fire-related ability.)

So, the conclusion is that most Pokémons of the same species start equal, and training can make stronger, unique and special.
I would also like a little randomness and variation in Pokémon of the same species, like a plus/minus 20% for each primary and secondary attribute, and particular Advantages/Disadvantages that depend on where the Pokémon lives (it's surrounding, the other species in the same ecosystem, and so on).

About Pokémon Types
At the beginning I was really concern on how to adapt Pokémon elemental types to GURPS and to make it realistic.
After reading GURPS Powers I found a lot of answers.
The Types will not follow a strict "tik-tak-toe" table, it would be too simplistic. I still have to decide and design the complete list of Powers, but once it's done all Pokémon will have one or more of them, and they will acquire abilities based on those powers.

Some powers need to be built from scratch, but I found that many listed in the book can be a reasonable choice, or at least a good starting point.
Some example: Air (flying-type), Bioenergy (grass-type or fighting-type), Body Control (fairy-type, grass-type, psychic-type, fighting-type), Chaos (dark-type or ghost-type), Cold/Ice (ice-type), Cosmic (legendary), Darkness (dark-type), Death (dark-type or ghost-type), Divine (legendary), Earth (earth-type or rock-type), Electricity (electric-type), ESP (psychic-type), Evil (some dark-type or ghost-type), Force Constructs (psychic-type), Good (fairy-type and some normal-type), Healing (fairy-type, some normal-type), and so, the list is long but the material in GURPS Powers should solve the Pokémon Types problem.

Pokédex and Mystery
I do not have a final word about the matter, but I would like a world where not everything is known. A Pokédex (or something similar) is essential to recall useful information about specific Pokémon species in any moment.

On the other side, I think a perpetuous sense of mystery and uncertainty is important for Players. That's why Players cannot have access to in-game Pokémon informations out of play. Everybody knows a Pikachu is an electric-type Pokémon, who evolve in a Raichu, that uses not physical attacks and has a great speed and so on, but the Players will not know which Pokémon they will find in the wilds, if they will be aggressive or not, if they have particular abilities, and they will not be able to easily recognize a stronger Pokémon only by looking at it.

Also I don't want to exclude the possibility to replace Pokémons with other custom-made "monsters" (that function exactly as Pokémons do, but at least the Players will not know too many informations before the game start).
This would harm the "Pokémon feeling", so I am not sure what to do.

Healing System
Healing classically have 3 sources: Pokémon, PokčCenters and items.

Pokémon moves (abilities) can heal other Pokémon and Trainers outside of battle. This must have a downside or at least a limitations, but I don't want to introduce moves PP. Insted, healing can sacrifice the Pokémon FP, to avoid an overuse of the healing ability.

The existence of PokéCenters is not certain, it will depend on the kind of world we want to build, but I guess it's probable they will exist but not be too common, expecially in the wilds. They might be similar to hospitals in the pre-industrial era: common in the cities, but nearly non-existent in outside.

Healing items needs to be balanced too. Their existence depends on TL that we choose, but I don't want a civilization too primitive in non-combact situations.
TL needs a discussion by itself, but the general idea is to have a low TL for weapons and armatures (TL4 or less) and a modest TL for almost everything else (I would assume modern science knowledge, but very restricted industrial development).
In such a scenario healing items should be common, but not necessarily cheap. I don't exclude the possibility to be restricted or rare, but they must exist.

Catching Pokémon
Pokémon in the wilds will have very different reaction to Trainers, even Pokémon of the same species will react differently.
Since I am not a master improvisator, I like to have as much rules as possible to have everything covered (which is... GURPS) and the GM can choose when to apply them.

So yes, I want to build a system behind catching Pokémon, since it is an essential part of the world of Pokémon we are used to. This includes rules to govern wild Pokémon reactions to trainers, and we have to make them feel realistic and not so predictable.
Attacking a Pokémon alone is different than finding it in a herd, and Pokémon reactions will vary accordingly.

I have not thought about this mechanic at all, and I don't remember a specific GURPS book that can address this aspect (but I am sure that the rules are somewhere).

So?
I tried to reply as short as possible, but I understand I have to make things more clear.
I will try to create a "summary", an index, where all the rules and mechanics can be simply organized, without confusion. I will do it as soon as possible.

Thank you again everyone for your support, see you soon.
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