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Old 10-30-2017, 05:43 PM   #1
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

In the Book:
Most spells take one second to cast. Take the Concentrate maneuver for one turn and attempt your skill roll at the end of your turn. If you succeed, the spell takes effect instantly. Whether you succeed or fail, your turn ends as soon as you roll the dice. No one can interrupt a one-second spell unless he took the Wait maneuver on his own turn before the caster began concentrating.

So if there is a combat of lets say 3 Orcs and a Mage and the Mage has the Initiative, and the Orcs are after him on this turn. The Mage casts a 1 turn Regular spell, lets say ARMOR on himself, and the Orcs are taking the Attack Maneuver. Does that mean the Mage concentrates on the spell for that turn, then each Orc takes their attack, then at the end of that first Turn the mages Armor spell goes off and he is protected? Or does the armor spell go off BEFORE they attack him? I do not see it where a person performs and uses all their turn up before anyone else can go.

How does Mystical combat work? Is it: TURN 1: Concentrate on Spell [Fireball]. TURN 2: Throw Fire Ball. TURN Three: Concentrate on Fireball. TURN Four: Throw FireBall. and then TURN Five: Concentrate on Sleep Spell, and before the Turn ends the spell goes off, no need to wait until the next second to "throw it", therefore it takes effect on TURN 5?

And are Psionics/Powers the same? Turn 1: Concentrate on TK to grab man by throat. Turn 2: Start Applying Damage to Throat.
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Old 10-30-2017, 05:59 PM   #2
mr beer
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
In the Book:
Most spells take one second to cast. Take the Concentrate maneuver for one turn and attempt your skill roll at the end of your turn. If you succeed, the spell takes effect instantly. Whether you succeed or fail, your turn ends as soon as you roll the dice. No one can interrupt a one-second spell unless he took the Wait maneuver on his own turn before the caster began concentrating.

So if there is a combat of lets say 3 Orcs and a Mage and the Mage has the Initiative, and the Orcs are after him on this turn. The Mage casts a 1 turn Regular spell, lets say ARMOR on himself, and the Orcs are taking the Attack Maneuver. Does that mean the Mage concentrates on the spell for that turn, then each Orc takes their attack, then at the end of that first Turn the mages Armor spell goes off and he is protected? Or does the armor spell go off BEFORE they attack him? I do not see it where a person performs and uses all their turn up before anyone else can go.
It's the mage's turn. He takes Concentrate to cast the spell. Then his turn ends. He rolls the skill check. If he succeeds, the spell takes effect instantly. Then it's the Orcs' turn. They attack but they cannot prevent the spell from taking place.

Let's say that two of the Orcs attack but the other takes the Wait manoeuvre and will attack if the mage casts another spell.

The mage's second turn, he casts another 1 second spell. Before he finishes his turn, the Orc that Waited gets to attack. The other two Orcs do not.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:01 PM   #3
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Concentrating takes a turn (blocking spells being the big exception). Wizards generally do not make good tanks and should avoid being surrounded by 3 Orcs, as they will knock her out for fun later before she can do anything major to them.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:12 PM   #4
Gnomasz
 
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Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Overall, it's
[A's turn starts]A does stuff[A's turn ends]
[B's turn starts]B does stuff[B's turn ends]
[C's turn starts]C does stuff[C's turn ends]
[A's 2nd turn starts]A does stuff[A's turn ends]
and so on. A character's turn ends before the other character's turn starts.

So, in the orc scenario, the mage gets to cast Armor before orcs attack him.

Sleep spell is another thing because it takes 3 seconds to cast, so it's (for example):
A's 5th turn: starts casting Sleep (Concentrate),
B's 5th turn: casts Fireball (Concentrate),
A6: continues casting Sleep (2nd Concentrate)
B6: throws Fireball, A dodges, rolls Will-3 (see Distraction and Injury, p. Basic 236 or Magic 7), passes and continues casting.
A7: finishes casting Sleep (3rd Concentrate), rolls for it and B rolls to resist.
B7: might already be asleep.

Stun is a simpler spell with 1 sec. casting time, this would be:
A's 5th turn: casts Stun, rolls for it and B rolls to resist.

Powers generally work the same: within the same turn order (it's really more a thing about basic turn sequence than magic or powers). TK is a bit special in that you need to Concentrate to get another maneuver with TK in the same turn. So your character Concentrates for your TK to immediately Attack and grab enemy's throat, but it's still subject to rules for Choke Hold (p. Basic 404), so on your next turn you can Concentrate on your TK, and it immediately, during your turn, performs an Attack to crush the throat and deal damage.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:19 PM   #5
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
It's the mage's turn. He takes Concentrate to cast the spell. Then his turn ends. He rolls the skill check. If he succeeds, the spell takes effect instantly. Then it's the Orcs' turn. They attack but they cannot prevent the spell from taking place.

Let's say that two of the Orcs attack but the other takes the Wait manoeuvre and will attack if the mage casts another spell.

The mage's second turn, he casts another 1 second spell. Before he finishes his turn, the Orc that Waited gets to attack. The other two Orcs do not.
Yes thank you but my issue is this, a Turn is a second of time. Therefore in TURN 1, if the Mage concentrates it will take the FULL Turn to concentrate right? Well sandwiched in that second is everyone else that has their attacks. Therefore while he is concentrating, other peoples actions are happening all around him. He in concentrating, the orcs are charging, an orc is readying an arrow, the mages partner is rushing the orcs, and so on. So while the Mage in concentrating on that 1 turn spell, he may have an orc swinging a sword at him because that orc was right after his initiative, right?

Below are two examples, how would they work then?

TURN Initiative Person Maneuver
TURN 1 9 Mage Concentrate of ARMOR
TURN 1 7 Orc Attack with Sword, in melee
TURN 1 7 Orc Atack with thrown knife, 20 years away
TURN 1 5 Orc Attack with thrown spear, 20 yards away



TURN Initiative Person Maneuver
TURN 1 12 Orc Atack with thrown knife, 20 years away
TURN 1 9 Mage Concentrate of ARMOR
TURN 1 7 Orc Attack with Sword, in melee
TURN 1 7 Orc Atack with thrown knife, 20 years away
TURN 1 5 Orc Attack with thrown spear, 20 yards away
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:24 PM   #6
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

If the mage actually has initiative, the orcs are stunned for a minimum of one turn, even if they make the roll.

Anyway, 4e spells don't work like this, that was 3e. Now the spell takes effect on the turn you cast it. So yes if you cast Armor you get the DR before anyone else can go.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:26 PM   #7
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
Overall, it's
[A's turn starts]A does stuff[A's turn ends]
[B's turn starts]B does stuff[B's turn ends]
[C's turn starts]C does stuff[C's turn ends]
[A's 2nd turn starts]A does stuff[A's turn ends]
and so on. A character's turn ends before the other character's turn starts.

So, in the orc scenario, the mage gets to cast Armor before orcs attack him.

Sleep spell is another thing because it takes 3 seconds to cast, so it's (for example):
A's 5th turn: starts casting Sleep (Concentrate),
B's 5th turn: casts Fireball (Concentrate),
A6: continues casting Sleep (2nd Concentrate)
B6: throws Fireball, A dodges, rolls Will-3 (see Distraction and Injury, p. Basic 236 or Magic 7), passes and continues casting.
A7: finishes casting Sleep (3rd Concentrate), rolls for it and B rolls to resist.
B7: might already be asleep.

Stun is a simpler spell with 1 sec. casting time, this would be:
A's 5th turn: casts Stun, rolls for it and B rolls to resist.

Powers generally work the same: within the same turn order (it's really more a thing about basic turn sequence than magic or powers). TK is a bit special in that you need to Concentrate to get another maneuver with TK in the same turn. So your character Concentrates for your TK to immediately Attack and grab enemy's throat, but it's still subject to rules for Choke Hold (p. Basic 404), so on your next turn you can Concentrate on your TK, and it immediately, during your turn, performs an Attack to crush the throat and deal damage.
Ok I guess get it, my flaw is this: That would allow the Mage who has initiative to remove a foe off the battle field, even before anyone else attacks, but I guess that makes sense. I see my combats more cinematic I think, with the Mage casting the Spell as the fighter rushes forward to slice the orc, as the Cleric invokes her prayer, and the Orc draws his sword and rushes the fighter, all on the first turn. Then at the end of that 1 second turn, the Mage's spell goes off, the Fighter get to his target the orc, the clerics prayer is answered, and the orc is now in melee with the fighter, meeting him half way with his sword also drawn.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:28 PM   #8
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lameth View Post
Ok I guess get it, my flaw is this: That would allow the Mage who has initiative to remove a foe off the battle field, even before anyone else attacks, but I guess that makes sense. I see my combats more cinematic I think, with the Mage casting the Spell as the fighter rushes forward to slice the orc, as the Cleric invokes her prayer, and the Orc draws his sword and rushes the fighter, all on the first turn. Then at the end of that 1 second turn, the Mage's spell goes off, the Fighter get to his target the orc, the clerics prayer is answered, and the orc is now in melee with the fighter, meeting him half way with his sword also drawn.
That is just because the mage has a ranged attack. An orc with a crossbow can shoot him on its first turn too.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:30 PM   #9
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Also

Is there anyway to allow Spells to not have the -1 per hex for distance, yet not make it ridiculous with 80 feet only being -7 to cast the spell on the Range Chart. I allowed a mage to cast a Reg sleep spell 80 feet away, and without thinking went off the range chart instead because I find the -1 per hex a little wrong and unbalanced for my world. Or even some powers, like Control is -1 per hex.

I see some variant rules for this, like Far Casting and other things, does anyone else do anything different? Basically I don't mind making in not -1 per hex, but I do not want a mage casting a sleep spell a mile away.
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Old 10-30-2017, 06:32 PM   #10
Lameth
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Time to Cast a Spell Question and comabt

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
If the mage actually has initiative, the orcs are stunned for a minimum of one turn, even if they make the roll.

Anyway, 4e spells don't work like this, that was 3e. Now the spell takes effect on the turn you cast it. So yes if you cast Armor you get the DR before anyone else can go.
Why? Everyone saw each other, and they all rolled initiative. Why would the orcs be stunned in this example?
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