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Old 05-28-2019, 07:44 PM   #51
TippetsTX
 
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

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going back to the 80s, I highly recommend a DC comic book titled "The Warlord"
a hollow Earth, Atlantis, Magic, High Technology, a sun (and orbiting moon!) suspended at the center. the original Shakira. It had it all.
Already a big fan. Love Mike Grell's stuff. First appearance in DC 1st Issue Special #8 (Nov 1975) and I have a bunch of the other science/fantasy/adventure comics that both DC and Marvel were putting out around the same time... Burroughs properties (especially enjoyed the Tarzan in Pellucidar serial), Claw, Conan, King Kull, Skull the Slayer, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, etc. Great stuff!
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Old 05-28-2019, 08:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

Another question about sea travel (I need help with the math)... on Earth the horizon on the ocean is about 12 miles out, but what would it be on a world with the circumference of Cidri?
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Old 05-28-2019, 09:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: Cidri Genesis

The mnoren built Cidri and decorated it. The mnoren had large parcels of land (continents) that they let (rented) to certain entrepreneurs (landlords) who brought in and populated these lands. Their leasees were races who staked out claims to apartments (nation sized areas). Often neighbors would spread their junk into the common area or make too much noise and feuds would develop.

Certain gods bought the mineral rights (ability to generate followers), but could not get exclusive rights to these areas. And feuds would develop.

Eventually, the mnoren stopped charging rent for the property or maintaining it and the landlords lost control of the lands as squatters came in. And feuds would develop.

So some 2500 years later, we have a ramshackle state of affairs.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:20 AM   #54
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Another question about sea travel (I need help with the math)... on Earth the horizon on the ocean is about 12 miles out, but what would it be on a world with the circumference of Cidri?
No one knows the circumference of Cidri, and it depends on how high the lookout is, and how much atmospheric haze there is.

But if Cidri is many times larger than Earth, the horizon would be many times farther away when looking from the same height.

It would look weird. Also on land, if you climbed any appreciable height and weren't surrounded by higher heights, and allow annoying amounts of long-range observation and mapping.
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Old 05-29-2019, 12:36 AM   #55
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No one knows the circumference of Cidri, and it depends on how high the lookout is, and how much atmospheric haze there is.

But if Cidri is many times larger than Earth, the horizon would be many times farther away when looking from the same height.

It would look weird. Also on land, if you climbed any appreciable height and weren't surrounded by higher heights, and allow annoying amounts of long-range observation and mapping.
The use of atmospheric haze to limit information gathering at a distance is a good method to employ.

Then have the Wizard's Guild develop scrying type spells to defeat the problem. They would be very long, complex, and ST demanding to cast.
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Old 05-29-2019, 02:58 PM   #56
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No one knows the circumference of Cidri, and it depends on how high the lookout is, and how much atmospheric haze there is.
While I tend to read the sentence "Cidri is big enough to hold thousands of Earths" as hyperbole, for the sake of argument, let's say that Cidri is roughly the size of Jupiter (which can hold 1300 or so Earths, volume-wise). The surface area, then, would be about 120 times that of Earth with a radius of 43,000 miles.

So if I'm doing the math right (which is doubtful), a sailor in a crow's nest 100 ft above sea level on Cidri should be able to see nearly 40 miles in all directions assuming favorable atmospheric conditions. That's about twice as far as would be possible on Earth. I was expecting a larger number TBH, but does that sound about right to the rest of you?

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
But if Cidri is many times larger than Earth, the horizon would be many times farther away when looking from the same height.

It would look weird. Also on land, if you climbed any appreciable height and weren't surrounded by higher heights, and allow annoying amounts of long-range observation and mapping.
I'm sure the 'Flat Cidri Society' would have a much larger following than our own terrestrial chapter does.
;)
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:59 PM   #57
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Another question about sea travel (I need help with the math)... on Earth the horizon on the ocean is about 12 miles out, but what would it be on a world with the circumference of Cidri?
Somebody on here actually DID the math in some other thread, but I can't remember if it was here, or over on the main thread. Mind you, their math was still iffy because they didn't have any "actual" (read "defendable, from the literature") figures for Cidri's circumference, so a part of their argument was the old "if we say Cidri is this much bigger..." launching point. As I recall, their answer was that the horizon might be around 60 or so miles away (five times as far)...

That would make it pretty hard for a pirate to "sneak up" on you.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:39 AM   #58
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Which reminds me... I also like the idea of the Mnoren with limitations. I don't think it is a stretch to assume that much of their power and technology was stolen. The rest then, is a result of perfecting the role of the 'great and powerful wizard of OZ' on a massive scale.
Perhaps, much like the Ringworld novels, the Mnoren didn't build Cidri, but found it - an ancient alien mega-structure that they might not have been able to construct themselves, but were technologically advanced enough to settle it and understand its operation to some degree.
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Old 05-31-2019, 01:21 AM   #59
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While I tend to read the sentence "Cidri is big enough to hold thousands of Earths" as hyperbole, for the sake of argument, let's say that Cidri is roughly the size of Jupiter (which can hold 1300 or so Earths, volume-wise). The surface area, then, would be about 120 times that of Earth with a radius of 43,000 miles.

So if I'm doing the math right (which is doubtful), a sailor in a crow's nest 100 ft above sea level on Cidri should be able to see nearly 40 miles in all directions assuming favorable atmospheric conditions. That's about twice as far as would be possible on Earth. I was expecting a larger number TBH, but does that sound about right to the rest of you?
The math is straightforward.

The distance you can see before the horizon interferes is the square root of ((your height above the surface plus the diameter of the planet) times your height again). (For more math fun, see for example http://www.cheerfullywithdrawn.com/b...orizon-on-mars .)

I think your math is in the right ballpark. I get 47 miles on Jupiter's surface (...) from 100 feet up, as opposed to 12 on Earth.

Say you find a small easily climbed mountain, say 4000 feet. On Earth, you could see 77 miles to the horizon, barring clouds. On Jupiter, that would be 301 miles.

Also, perhaps more relatable to appreciate the experience, a few two meters off the ground on Jupiter would have a horizon as far as someone 100 feet up on Earth (about 12 miles, as you wrote before).

As for whether an all-in-one Cidri would be bigger than Jupiter or not, I would say so (but again, I really think Cidri is thousands of mostly normal-sized worlds linked by gates). I don't think it means holding thousands of Earth inside it, but that the surface would provide room for thousands of Earth-sized surfaces. (Maybe quite a few thousands, if it's really going to hold everyone's Cidri campaigns.) Jupiter's surface area is only 228 times Earth's surface area.

A planet with the surface area of two thousand Earths would be almost three times the diameter of Jupiter in size. On such a planet:

The horizon at 2 meters up is 21 miles. (3 on Earth)
The horizon at 100 feet up is 81 miles. (12 on Earth)
The horizon 4000 feet up is 518 miles. (77 on Earth)
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Old 07-02-2019, 06:43 PM   #60
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Um...it's not just finding a nice, elevated observation point, or a clear day.

If your observer is inside a Dyson sphere world, is there a star in the center?

If so, is there vacuum around the star? How much vacuum? This determines whether it is possible to see directly across the interior of the Dyson sphere to the land masses and oceans on the other side.

Enough atmosphere can block vision. We're talking about several thousand miles or more of atmosphere, but in a Dyson sphere that might be possible.

That leads to the other question, of course. Do you want people to see the major objects on the opposite side of the sphere? Do you want telescope-equipped observers to be able to see rivers, lakes, maybe big cities?
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