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Old 12-04-2022, 07:53 PM   #1
edk926
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Default Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

I was playing around with seeing how expensive I could get gear without putting enchantments on them using all possible CF modifiers I'm aware of regardless of source and ran into a quick observation and question. Basic Set/DF has Fine (+9 CF), which makes armor weigh 25% less. Low-Tech has Masterfully tailored (+29 CF), which makes armors weigh 30% less and gives a penalty for others to target chinks in armor. I would presume these are mutually exclusive, although given the incredible costs involved, why not combine both for the TL3 Multi-Millionaires. Anyway ...

First the question: Going from expertly crafted to masterfully crafted is going from 15% to 30% weight reduction. Does the penalty modifier go from -1 to -2, or does it stay the same?

Second, you are basically putting +20 CF to go from -25% to -30% in weight and adding that penalty. Is it really worth it?
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Old 12-04-2022, 08:16 PM   #2
mlangsdorf
 
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

Low-Tech's Expert Tailoring and Masterful Tailoring replace the rules for Fine.

However, you can have Plate Armor with Masterful Tailoring, Fluted, and Duplex Plate for +1 DR, +41 CF, and -50% weight.

Normally, a DR 6 Plate torso piece costs $2,500 and weighs 20 lbs. DR 6 plate torso with Masterful Tailoring, Fluted, and Duplex Plate costs $82,00 and weighs 8 lbs.

If you're allowing Fine armor then I don't think Masterful Tailoring is generally worth the cost. A DR 6 plate torso with Fine, Fluting, and Duplex is $42,000 and 9 lbs; I wouldn't double the cost of my armor to save 1 lb of weight, or even 3 lbs for the full suit.
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Old 12-04-2022, 08:46 PM   #3
Varyon
 
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

DF's Fine armor matches with LT's Expert Tailoring + Fluting - in either case, you're looking at -25% to weight and +9 CF. And, of course, you can combine Masterful Tailoring with Fluting, for net -40% to weight and +33 CF. Note with Plate (and assuming you're well into TL 4), Duplex Plate is also an option, for +1 DR, -10% weight, and +4 CF - combined with the above, you're looking at +1 DR, -50% weight, and +41 CF. A full medium plate harness (covering everything, for 305% Torso weight) with the above would give DR 7, weigh 30.5 lb, and cost $320,250, compared to DR 7, 73.2 lb, and $9,150 (DR 7 out of Plate of merely Good quality) or DR 7, 85.4 lb, and $6,405 (DR 7 out of Cheap-quality Plate).

As for if going to all this expense is "worth it," that depends on the character, really. Your character has limited amounts of carrying capacity and money. A very strong character can potentially get away with munitions-grade armor, saving a great deal of money. A very wealthy character, on the other hand, may have no difficulty throwing an extra $150,000 or so just to shave off 9 lb of weight, saving carrying capacity. Personally, I think Expert Tailoring, Fluting, Hardened Steel, and Duplex Plate are all worth the expense (if I were to rank them, probably Hardened Steel is the most worth it, followed by Expert Tailoring, then finally Fluting and upgrading Hardened Steel to Duplex Plate are tied). Going from Expert Tailoring to Masterful Tailoring really isn't worth the expense, but if you have enough money that an extra +20 CF is no big deal, by all means go for it. If you've got that much money to blow, might as well make it Ornate 3 (+9 CF) while you're at it, so you look the part.
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Old 12-08-2022, 04:19 AM   #4
Rasna
 
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

In case of a helmet, you can even add -25% for One-Piece Construction at +9 CF (for free in a TL4 setting).

Anyway, GURPS item prices are simply a point of reference for GM and players. In a strictly realistic TL4 historical setting (Western or Central Europe), a good quality mail shirt (Heavy Mail) could be as much as six time more expensive than a good quality breastplate (Medium Plate).
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Old 12-08-2022, 05:31 AM   #5
Witchking
 
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
If you've got that much money to blow, might as well make it Ornate 3 (+9 CF) while you're at it, so you look the part.
Speaking as a (former/recent) player of a PC whose entire character initial concept was based off of this picture.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/447474912948805051/

'Money is the best superpower!'

LoL Credentials...

150 pt base cp at start TL 3-4ish

Filthy Rich 50
Fixed Property 10 (x10 starting money in non-Adventuring Assets ie house)
Ind Income 1-2
Business Talent/2 10
Luck 15

Later upped it to Multi-Millionaire/1 and was pushing for second level.

I believe I invented the term 'Financial No-Mana Zone', places where money has no meaning.

I spent enough money on my adventuring gear that I could have hired a battalion and had it do 'whatever'. But not subtle and not 'adventuring'.

Later I did hire that battalion because that is called War and is different.

But you do not make it ornate...that is just bragging.

Plain, Stark, Stylish so that those with the skills to know will recognize the skill with which it is crafted. An exquisite tool crafted for the job...not a showpiece for the front hall.
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Old 12-08-2022, 06:01 AM   #6
RGTraynor
 
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

(nods) It's worth it if you've got the jack to spend. For practical purposes, Witchking's PC could buy anything he wanted, and the only IC checks on it was what the authorities would let him have ‡, what existed in the first place, and the time it would take to craft things. (With all the good will in the world, no one's getting their hands on +5 Fortify, +5 Deflect, 50% Lightened armor overnight.)


‡ - ... which was quite a bit, because one of his early moves -- with the kingdom entering a civil war, and the rival claimant absconding with the treasury -- was to drop a large, interest-free "loan" onto the Queen so she could pay salaries.
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Old 12-10-2022, 04:47 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fine Armor vs Masterfully Tailored Armor

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGTraynor View Post
(nods)‡ - ... which was quite a bit, because one of his early moves -- with the kingdom entering a civil war, and the rival claimant absconding with the treasury -- was to drop a large, interest-free "loan" onto the Queen so she could pay salaries.

Interest free is a hair generous. IIRC it was a couple of percent annually...somewhere in the 1-3% range. Vastly below anything approaching market rates for even the most stable (financially and otherwise) of governments (never mind a reasonable penalty for assessed risk). Not sure he ever 'lost' money on a deal and was not eager to start.
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