Doesn't Bleed- Rules Exemption (Bleeding)?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

I feel I have to point out that I can't find anything that makes Rules Exemption (Bleeding) illegal. Bleeding is an optional rule; Rules Exemption is a perk that exempts you from a specific optional rule that otherwise applies. If it woudn't apply here, I'd want to know why.

Not that I think that this is reasonable, mind you.

Looks like you've answered your own question. Bleeding is optional, but so is the Rules Exemption Perk. If you think that allowing somebody to ignore the otherwise standard use of Bleeding in a given campaign seems cheaply given at the cost of a Perk, then charge more or simply disallow it.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

I'd call it IT:No Blood with a -20% to -40% limitation (thus [4] or [3] cp). Bleeding is a much more common hazard than blood toxins or hampered circulation.

I'm inclined towards -60%, but -40% might be right. Perfect coagulation is a neat little faqir trick. Or ki trick. It's a bit odd that it isn't in GURPS somewhere already. Martial Arts or Action, or a Monk Ability in DF.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by JCurwen3

How much would you peg the real value of "Doesn't Bleed" in a game that uses Bleeding rules? I'd say treat as an Immunity of at least Common (15 pts).

It's a ki ability in Modern Action RPG, and also a Berzerker ability, and a Body Control ability, , and all of them are quite costly, based on the assumption that bleeding sucks and so not being subjct to bleeding is very attractive.

And you're probably right that IT: No Blood is based on the assumption that the bleeding rules won't be used.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Yeah would a character with unmodified No Blood but not Doesn't Breathe be vulnerable to blood chokes?

Sure he would, but in a rather longer time frame.

The brain needs both oxygen and sugars. Doesn't Breathe means his brain doesn't need oxygen anyway, and as I understand it oxygen (and getting rid of CO2) is more critical than sugar, so while you fall unconscious after about a minute of choking due to no oxygen, I'd assume you could last through several minutes of choking due to no sugars reaching your brain.

The blood also removes nasty stuff, such as CO2, but that's not very critical. And it moves heat around, acting as a cooling system. But I'd assume that that's less critical than sugars to the brain, even though the brain is a very energy-intensive organ that needs to be cooled off.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Sure he would, but in a rather longer time frame.

The brain needs both oxygen and sugars. Doesn't Breathe means his brain doesn't need oxygen anyway, and as I understand it oxygen (and getting rid of CO2) is more critical than sugar, so while you fall unconscious after about a minute of choking due to no oxygen, I'd assume you could last through several minutes of choking due to no sugars reaching your brain.

The blood also removes nasty stuff, such as CO2, but that's not very critical. And it moves heat around, acting as a cooling system. But I'd assume that that's less critical than sugars to the brain, even though the brain is a very energy-intensive organ that needs to be cooled off.

No. As previously mentioned, IT: No Blood specifically and explicitly provides immunity to blood chokes.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'm inclined towards -60%, but -40% might be right. Perfect coagulation is a neat little faqir trick. Or ki trick. It's a bit odd that it isn't in GURPS somewhere already. Martial Arts or Action, or a Monk Ability in DF.

Oh, there's a thought. "Stop Bleeding" could be a technique for the cinematic Body Control skill - either allowing the Master to roll Body Control in place of HT for bleeding checks, or to make a single Body Control roll (with the same penalty as his bleeding checks, plus an additional penalty) to stop the bleeding immediately. In a mostly-realistic game, you might let someone Meditate to gain a +1 bonus on HT rolls to resist bleeding.

Metabolism Control, of course, also applies its bonus to bleeding checks. A Power Stunt could be used to temporarily turn it into No Blood for the purpose of bleeding.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I'm inclined towards -60%, but -40% might be right. Perfect coagulation is a neat little faqir trick. Or ki trick. It's a bit odd that it isn't in GURPS somewhere already. Martial Arts or Action, or a Monk Ability in DF.

Body Control can act as First Aid in appropriately cinematic campaigns. That will stop your bleeding via "ki" (MA54). Personally, I find this more thematically appropriate than "Doesn't bleed." In fiction, many powerful martial artists DO bleed, but the very skilled ones will meditate for a moment to close their wounds. That's the sort of thing you're talking about, and it's better represented via Body Control.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Oh, there's a thought. "Stop Bleeding" could be a technique for the cinematic Body Control skill - either allowing the Master to roll Body Control in place of HT for bleeding checks, or to make a single Body Control roll (with the same penalty as his bleeding checks, plus an additional penalty) to stop the bleeding immediately. In a mostly-realistic game, you might let someone Meditate to gain a +1 bonus on HT rolls to resist bleeding.

Metabolism Control, of course, also applies its bonus to bleeding checks. A Power Stunt could be used to temporarily turn it into No Blood for the purpose of bleeding.

Well, I'm all for giving Meditation meaningful uses.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Body Control can act as First Aid in appropriately cinematic campaigns. That will stop your bleeding via "ki" (MA54). Personally, I find this more thematically appropriate than "Doesn't bleed." In fiction, many powerful martial artists DO bleed, but the very skilled ones will meditate for a moment to close their wounds. That's the sort of thing you're talking about, and it's better represented via Body Control.

Didn't know about that option. Looks good!

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, I'm all for giving Meditation meaningful uses.

Yeah, as written it doesn't do a whole lot. I could see it serving as a Complementary Skill for a variety of tasks, at least for overcoming concentration-based TDMs.

I'm not sure I'd combine Autohypnosis and Meditation, as the thread you linked suggested. Autohypnosis is a blatantly cinematic skill. I think comparing it to Meditation is like comparing Enthrall to Performance. Sure, humans can have their emotions influenced by music... but to have the discrete, over-the-top effects attributed to mythic bards requires some extra effort.

[martinl]

It's pretty easy to knock someone out without causing a failed death check. Stab Average Joe in the vitals for 4 points (12 after x3 is applied) and he's going to fall down soon. But the thing that makes these kinds of wounds eventually lethal is the bleeding rules[1] - without them, Average Joe will be fine even if no one does anything to patch up his sucking chest wound. (This is probably why they are optional.)

Immunity to this is probably worth about 10 points, but the already big problem of situation insensitive point costs in GURPS is even bigger for optional rules.

[1] Infection rules are also relevant, admittedly, but even more rarely used IME.