not quite the World of Darkness v3

[tbone]

Originally Posted by naloth

1) The ER/Blood Pool is gone.

I don't really follow WoD-related topics, so this might be a question with some obvious answer, but:

As a blood pool in GURPS, I probably would have first thought to use Fatigue, not HP. I'm guessing you considered and rejected that idea. Is there a drawback to using FP?

[naloth]

Changeling the Lost (50 points)
[ 6 ] Chameleon 4 (Controllable +20%; Costs 2 fatigue + 1/min -10%; Dynamic +40%; AA Glamour)
[ 9 ] Detect (Supernatural; Reflexive +40%; Vague -50%)
[ 32 ] Glamour (Elastic Skin; Costs 2 fatigue + 1/sec -10%; Glamour, Will -4 -10%; Reduced Time 4: 1 sec +80%)
[ 0 ] Feature: May buy up to 3 Gizmos (Costs 4 fatigue -20%) for 4 points each.
[ 5 ] Illusion (Costs 2 fatigue + 1/min -10%; AA: Glamour)
[ 21 ] True Sight (See Invisible; Cost 2 fatigue + 1/min -10%; True Sight +50%)

[ -3 ] Magic Susceptibility (may take up to 4 more)
[ -20 ] Secret (One of the Lost)

Total: 50 points

Notes: The second iteration of Changeling was about humans that had been kidnapped and taken to live with the fey. The Lost are those humans that make it back. Some arrive after decades, centuries, or even longer has passed. Others age years for minutes they have been gone. Regardless, the Lost cannot return to the life they had and the experience with the few has left them with few human skills and handful of fey tricks.

All Lost have a certain ability to lay illusions that can obstruct, misdirect, and disguise. It's not easy to do or maintain in the mortal realm (fatigue cost). This is taken as three alternate abilities: Chameleon for blending, Glamour to wear an illusionary disguise, and Illusion fill a non-moving 2 yard radius around the Lost with illusions.

All Lost also learn to sense (reflexive but vague) and see through illusion as well. Some also learn how to conjure simple ordinary items (gizmos).

Lost have a Secret that covers being time displaced (either lacking papers or lacking papers that will work), possibly being replaced by a Doppleganger, having supernatural abilities, and possibly being wanted by the Fey.

Last, Lost are neither fully human nor fey. As such, they tend to be more susceptible to magical abilities (including gifts, disciplines, and other such supernatural effects).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by naloth

I suspect Blood Bonds are best represented by taking the victim as an Ally. If your character is the victim, it's probably a Duty owed to the one that bonded you.

That feels like the right way to do it, probably with the Minion Enhancement on Ally and the Unwilling Enhancement on Duty. IIRC, in at least one edition of WoD, making someone Blood Bonded to you wasn't something you could do freely, but required burning some sort of resource (I think it was Willpower); having to purchase your new minion as an Ally seems roughly in keeping with that.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by tbone

I don't really follow WoD-related topics, so this might be a question with some obvious answer, but:

As a blood pool in GURPS, I probably would have first thought to use Fatigue, not HP. I'm guessing you considered and rejected that idea. Is there a drawback to using FP?

Yes but I don't mind explaining. In the original GURPS 3e conversion, abilities were primarily powered by fatigue that could be recovered through rest. That was a mess. It didn't capture how VtM plays at all (in VtM effects are largely free or they cost blood points). Abilities that vamps could normally use were limited by resting. Other abilities that you normally couldn't use much due to blood costs were much easier to use over and over. Of course, the fact that 3e GURPS VtM discipline costs were basically 2/point for advantages normally priced many times didn't help either.

Anyway the feel I'm going for is similar to how the storyteller game works. Vampires that use a blood point only recover it from feeding. Willpower is a bit easier to get back but that also requires specific activities to recover. Damage works a bit differently so you vampires are quite a bit tougher than mundane humans by default aside from the ability to clear damage by spending blood points which you get by draining people.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by naloth

Huh, go figure.



I hadn't really thought too much about it.

I'd rather not add the ability to enslave others to the vampire template (players will see it as license to do so). I suspect Blood Bonds are best represented by taking the victim as an Ally. If your character is the victim, it's probably a Duty owed to the one that bonded you.

Thoughts?

I'd build it as Affliction: Disadvantage: Sense of Duty (to Regnant), Permanent, Blood Agent, Trigger (targets you have not Afflicted in the last 24 hours) -10% [20]. "Permanent" is actually 3 months, but that's long enough we charge for it as Permanent. The "three drinks" becomes superstition, this build gives the victim a HT check for each drink, and vampires just figure 3 tries will normally do the job. There's probably a more elegant way to write that Trigger limitation but eh. Multiple levels would just add a penalty to the HT check.

Being able to impose a Sense of Duty on people isn't my idea of mind control because they still have enormous leeway to decide their own actions, and in fact gets very awkward and dangerous very fast if you use it capriciously, but I can understand if you wouldn't want that to be a feature in your game.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by patchwork

I'd build it as Affliction: Disadvantage: Sense of Duty (to Regnant), Permanent, Blood Agent, Trigger (targets you have not Afflicted in the last 24 hours) -10% [20]. "Permanent" is actually 3 months, but that's long enough we charge for it as Permanent. The "three drinks" becomes superstition, this build gives the victim a HT check for each drink, and vampires just figure 3 tries will normally do the job. There's probably a more elegant way to write that Trigger limitation but eh. Multiple levels would just add a penalty to the HT check.

Being able to impose a Sense of Duty on people isn't my idea of mind control because they still have enormous leeway to decide their own actions, and in fact gets very awkward and dangerous very fast if you use it capriciously, but I can understand if you wouldn't want that to be a feature in your game.

A SoD isn't like Duty or Slave mentality, so it wouldn't be too big of a problem to allow characters to create these on demand. I'm going to go back and re-read how 2e and 4e handled them, but this looks good. Instead of Trigger how about Onset (delay) and also add a Costs HP/use clause? It also seems like it should be an Alternate Ability to the Kiss affliction.

It also opens the door for more developed blood bonds to develop into Allies (involuntary or otherwise).

[naloth]

Doppleganger (121 points)
[ 30 ] 360-degree vision (No Signature +20%)
[ 0 ] Feature: May buy Alternate Identity for 5 points/identity to memorize new forms.
[ 15 ] Flexibility
[ 36 ] IT: No Brain, No Eyes, No Neck, No Vitals, Unbreakable Bones (No Signature +20%)
[ 50 ] Morph (Cannot Memorize -50%)
[ 25 ] Regeneration (Normal)

[ -10 ] Code of Honor (The Mission: Be your face; Encourage Faith; Destroy Proof; Help other fey)
[ -20 ] Secret (Doppleganger)
[ -5 ] Vulnerability (x2; Silver)

Total: 121 points

Notes: Dopplegangers are replacements left behind after a mortal is kidnapped and taken to Arcadia. Dopplegangers are very durable and highly committed to The Mission. In Changeling the Lost, Dopplegangers would be antagonists; however, this being GURPS, we should be able to play any interesting character concept. I've fleshed out playable goals that I think would make them good PCs.

The Mission is something I created, but it's a logical extension of what a dopperganger would be charged to do. I've created it as a code, but it could be called a Sense of Duty or Obsession instead. It consists of three motivations. First, dopplegangers try to blend in and impersonate whomever they have replaced. Second, since Fey live on the imagination and faith of mortals, dopplegangers are charged with spreading fables (both true and untrue) about the fey. Third, dopplegangers are charged with destroying concrete proof about the supernatural such that fey remain only fables. It's a tight balancing act to make sure humanity believes in but isn't motivated to hunt fey. Last, dopplegangers are charged to assist other fey they run across.

Dopplegangers effectively have a 0 point racial profile for morph and retain all the remaining advantages and disadvantages. The target a doppleganger originally replaced is treated as the doppleganger's base form, and it's the only form a doppleganger can adopt without seeing or touching. A doppleganger can permanently memorize another form for 5 points (effectively an Alternate Identity) each. 10 forms would cost the same as removing "No Memory" so it's actually a bit of a premium over being able to store IQ # of forms.

Dopplegangers look exactly like what they duplicate, but they aren't human or even of this earth. The limbs and organs they manifest in any form aren't necessary, and can be regrown as necessary. Likewise, bending in unnatural ways isn't a problem.

[naloth]

Dreamers (100 points)
[ 50 ] Alternated Time Rate (Costs 2 fatigue/sec -20%; Emergencies Only -30%)
[ 10 ] Blessed (Heroic Feat, see below)
[ 15 ] Daredevil
[ 10 ] Destiny (Major)
[ 12 ] Luck (Focused -20%)
[ 1 ] Perk: Alcohol Tolerance
[ 25 ] Regeneration (Regular)

[ -3 ] Magic Susceptibility
[ -20 ] Secret (Dreamer)

Total: 100 points

Notes: This is roughly based on Changeling the Dreaming where fey survived being trapped on earth by blending their souls with humans. It's more upbeat than the usual WoD sourcebooks with a "you start as young adventurers" vibe. Of course, nothing prevents a much more mature dreamer from being run.

A dreamer is a potential fey, born with either with a fey parent or a fey ancestor. Each dreamer has a fey nature determined by their ancestry. Although there are potentially infinite types of CtD fey, I'm grouping them into four general types corresponding to GURPS attributes that will be further subdivided by additional traits later.

The starting template has a few generic things for a dreamer just discovering potential. First off, the fey can do a bit of time warping (ATR and regeneration), though it's not easy to do outside of Arcadia. Second, dreamers get to pick one attribute they can boost d6 for 3d6 sec once per session, plus the ability to Luck on anything related to their chosen attribute. Third, begin exceptional and taking chances (Destiny and Daredevil) feeds being fey. Banality will slowly snuff out a dreamer's potential.

Fey that use ST for their Heroic Feat are known as Ogres with access to various ST and durability related feats.

Fey that use DX for Heroic Feat are known as Elves. Elves are the masters of motion (physical feats and DX skills).

Fey that use IQ are known as Dwarves. Dwarves specialize in knowledge and how things works.

Fey that use HT are known as Satyrs. Satyrs are capable of unmatched endurance and the various HT related skills.

Dreamers are developing and exploring magic. As such dreamers are more vulnerable to external magic manipulating them. On the bright side it makes affecting them with beneficial magic easier. Unfortunately, it also makes them more vulnerable to hostile magic as well.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by naloth

A SoD isn't like Duty or Slave mentality, so it wouldn't be too big of a problem to allow characters to create these on demand. I'm going to go back and re-read how 2e and 4e handled them, but this looks good. Instead of Trigger how about Onset (delay) and also add a Costs HP/use clause? It also seems like it should be an Alternate Ability to the Kiss affliction.

It also opens the door for more developed blood bonds to develop into Allies (involuntary or otherwise).

Delay vs Trigger seems like a design aesthetic decision to me; I prefer an instant effect that if it fails, you can't try again until the next night, but "you can try as often as you like but the effect is never instant" just changes the way it's used a little. I personally would treat the HP cost as an accounting gimmick, with the understanding that a new vampire may have one but your elders have bought that limitation off as the strength of their blood grows. And/Or I'd want a decent penalty to the victim's HT roll in exchange for it.

And yeah, a blood bond is definitely not Slave Mentality and I wouldn't want to hand that out like candy either. Duty...is a weird thing for me, but I don't think it can be magically created with blood. Minor points that you may well have already considered: a 2 point Disad can be bought off with xp quickly and easily, so bonds breaking at an inconvenient time for the Regnant is going to be a Thing, and it interacts in delightfully inconvenient ways on people who already have an expansive Sense of Duty, and the more ghouls/bound childer you make the weaker it gets, as they start thinking the other ghouls will take care of Master.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by patchwork

Delay vs Trigger seems like a design aesthetic decision to me; I prefer an instant effect that if it fails, you can't try again until the next night, but "you can try as often as you like but the effect is never instant" just changes the way it's used a little.

Yes, I was going for "the effect is never instant" because blood bonds usually take quite a while before there is a significant effect on the target's behavior.

I can see players (especially some of the craftier ones I've played with) using the Trigger to sway someone that they will only be interacting with once by slipping them a bit of loyalty juice.

I personally would treat the HP cost as an accounting gimmick, with the understanding that a new vampire may have one but your elders have bought that limitation off as the strength of their blood grows. And/Or I'd want a decent penalty to the victim's HT roll in exchange for it.

Currently I have:
Affliction (Blood Agent -40%; Duration: Permanent +150% Onset: 24 hours -30%; SoD -2%;) [18/lvl]

Adding it at Lvl 1 with the Kiss Affliction as a AA (saving 12), only increases the cost of the template ~6 points which isn't bad for a minor effect. For those 6 points, you could instead invest in Allies (unwilling or otherwise), instead, and know what you're getting. Right now I'm just trying to decide if it's worth buying as a ability or leaving it as a Feature that allows you to buy allies later.

Requiring 1 HP/use would knock off 1 point (which isn't a lot). In one edition I check you need to spend a BP to do it for each of the three levels. In the others you rolled against your Blood Potency for vampires instead and it automatically worked on mortals (mooks). I don't see bumping it up to lvl 3 (making it 51 points) and another 39 points (after subtracting the AA cost) to the profile. It's just hadn't been that integral to the games I've played to justify being almost half the profile cost.

And yeah, a blood bond is definitely not Slave Mentality and I wouldn't want to hand that out like candy either. Duty...is a weird thing for me, but I don't think it can be magically created with blood. Minor points that you may well have already considered: a 2 point Disad can be bought off with xp quickly and easily, so bonds breaking at an inconvenient time for the Regnant is going to be a Thing, and it interacts in delightfully inconvenient ways on people who already have an expansive Sense of Duty,

Yes, I can see that especially for entralled PCs.

and the more ghouls/bound childer you make the weaker it gets, as they start thinking the other ghouls will take care of Master.

Not sure I follow this. More people having the same SoD doesn't lessen yours.