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Old 05-18-2020, 09:55 AM   #1
CeeDub
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Default Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:02 AM   #2
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by CeeDub View Post
Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?
Multiple hits from a rapid fire weapon are independent injuries. So yes, assuming it's not IT:DR that can round damage down to zero.
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Old 05-18-2020, 12:04 PM   #3
Thamior
 
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Moscow, Russia
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by CeeDub View Post
Salutations! Quick question: Is my understanding correct that if a character with Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction takes hits from a weapon with RoF > 1, he would take a minimum of 1 point of injury for each hit that penetrates Damage Resistance?
There is a cosmic +50% modifier that lets you ignore any injury less than 1 HP after IT:DR.
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Old 05-18-2020, 01:54 PM   #4
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by Thamior View Post
There is a cosmic +50% modifier that lets you ignore any injury less than 1 HP after IT:DR.
P118-119 yep.

Given how that's so much more expensive on high levels it makes me wonder about just buying two versions of stacking ITDR and just layer it so the +50% version is on the bottom...

Example:

ITDR2 (cosmic +50%) [75]
ITDR2 (normal) [50]
total cost: [125]

ITDR4 normally costs 100 points so taking +50% on it would cost [150]
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Old 05-18-2020, 02:42 PM   #5
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
P118-119 yep.

Given how that's so much more expensive on high levels it makes me wonder about just buying two versions of stacking ITDR and just layer it so the +50% version is on the bottom...
And the GM says 'no'. It's legitimately 50% more valuable, though there are several methods around the minimum damage 1 (e.g. DR 2 (hardened x6 +120%, absorption(healing) +80%) [30]).
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:27 PM   #6
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
there are several methods around the minimum damage 1 (e.g. DR 2 (hardened x6 +120%, absorption(healing) +80%) [30]).
Will still cause shock unless you have HPT, and I guess also deliver toxins and stuff.
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Old 05-18-2020, 03:49 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Will still cause shock unless you have HPT, and I guess also deliver toxins and stuff.
IT(DR) with cosmic won't stop skin or blood agents either.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:36 AM   #8
munin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vermont, USA
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
It's legitimately 50% more valuable,
Is it, though? For supers especially, it can be a massive amount of points just to ignore a few points of injury. It almost always makes more sense to put those points into more levels of IT:DR, DR, or Regeneration (just in terms of point value).

Without IT:DR, rounding to zero any injury less than one would be, what, a Rules Exemption perk? 1 point to ignore things like damage rolls of 1 for small piercing attacks seems reasonably fair. The fact that IT:DR would then bring more injuries into that range -- well, it's an expensive advantage, a synergy also seems fair.
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:58 AM   #9
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

I think there's a potential issue with any ability that takes you beyond "highly resistant to damage" to "effectively immune to damage."

In a modern setting, being effectively immune to firearms "should" cost maybe around 200 or so points (a rifle that does 7d can do at most 42 points of damage at a time, and 42 DR costs 210 points). This is not even taking into account potential armor divisors, eye shots, etc., so really you should be buying that DR with Forcefield and Hardened, which pushes the cost closer to 300. And if you want to be immune to rockets and grenades, it will cost even more.

There shouldn't be a much cheaper way to do this with IT:DR. So maybe +50% is a bit much, but a perk seems a bit cheap.
Perhaps +25% would be a fair cost?
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Old 05-19-2020, 08:52 AM   #10
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Injury Tolerance: Damage Reduction vs Rapid Fire

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Originally Posted by Gnome View Post
I think there's a potential issue with any ability that takes you beyond "highly resistant to damage" to "effectively immune to damage."

In a modern setting, being effectively immune to firearms "should" cost maybe around 200 or so points
Let's look at other damage mitigation you could do with 200 points.

On the active defense front you could buy either: Dodge +12 [180] (usually giving you an 18ish base dodge). Move +10 [200] (16ish base dodge).

You could also get +20 HP [40] and Regeneration [150] (+30 HP per second since it scales up with HP).

You could get Insubstantial [80] and be immune to conventional attacks. You have 120 points to play with for abilities that affect the substantial.

... and the list goes on. DR doesn't scale well for Supers or high TL. It's great for TL5 and below, but rather expensive where the good firearms come into play.

<snip>

Quote:
There shouldn't be a much cheaper way to do this with IT:DR. So maybe +50% is a bit much, but a perk seems a bit cheap.
Perhaps +25% would be a fair cost?
The problem with percentage costs are the above flat rate solutions. Regeneration is usually cheaper for Superman level IT:DR. DR w/Absorption is usually a better solution at lower costs even if you only allow absorbed points to be spent on the character's turn as a free action.
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