IT:DR (Armored Flesh)

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by reddir

I'm sorry to butt in here, but this raises a cool idea I'd like to have more information about.

Is there such a thing as a 'damage divisor' type of armor or damage resistance or force screen in GURPS?

If not, what would be a fair price for that?

Injury Tolerance" Damage Reduction called IT:DR by most of us.
It divides the damage after injury, and it is used to represent special toughness mostly. Also some other IT types like Unliving or Homogenious have special case damage divisors.

[reddir]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Injury Tolerance" Damage Reduction called IT:DR by most of us.
It divides the damage after injury, and it is used to represent special toughness mostly. Also some other IT types like Unliving or Homogenious have special case damage divisors.

Yup, got it. I hadn't seen it (or even heard of it) until Varyon said it was in the Powers book.

I'm seeing lots of cool uses of it, especially when limited. Fire mages taking less damage from fire, polar populations' adaptation to ice, etc. Its a nice way to reduce damage while still allowing some through.

I didn't respond to Varyon's post because I hadn't wanted to interrupt the thread too much.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Varyon

What is a fair Limitation value on IT:DR that is affected by Armor Divisors,

1 / (1 + 170%) = 37%
... and so either -35% or -40% depending on which way you wish to round it; -37% if you don't wish to.

Originally Posted by Varyon

and how do we build a character who has IT:DR that effectively multiplies Armor Divisors against it?

I believe the above does this, though I may be misunderstanding the question.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

1 / (1 + 170%) = 37%
... and so either -35% or -40% depending on which way you wish to round it; -37% if you don't wish to.

Where did that 170% come from? It looks like Cosmic (Resists Cosmic AD) and 1 level of Hardened, which seems... kind of odd.

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

I believe the above does this, though I may be misunderstanding the question.

The idea would be to be able to build something like IT:DR 100, but rather than have AD (2) reduce it to IT:DR 50, it reduces it much further (how far would depend on how the ability is built), possibly all the way down to IT:DR 1 (meaning it is completely negated).

I'm currently considering setting it up where you can have multiple levels of the AF Limitation, and each additional level effectively doubles any positive armor divisor. So, let's say we set AF at -20%. -20% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR in half, -40% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to a quarter, -60% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to an eighth, -80% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to a sixteenth (going lower means you might be able to find some Enhancements, as -80% is as low as you can go).

EDIT: I should note that there is a lower limit of IT:DR 1 (that is, no IT:DR), and that you can only get the discount if the reduction fully drops your IT:DR (so if you had IT:DR 3, you would get -20% for the first reduction, but either no points back or maybe -10% or so for the second, as it really only multiplies the AD by 1.5).

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Where did that 170% come from? It looks like Cosmic (Resists Cosmic AD) and 1 level of Hardened, which seems... kind of odd.

Cosmic, Defensive, +50%; Hardened 6, +120%.

IT:DR is unaffected by AD, both 'standard' and cosmic. Being able to ignore AD is a function of the Hardened enhancement. Being able to ignore cosmic AD (something that even Hardened doesn't do) requires a cosmic defensive enhancement. Making IT:DR vulnerable to AD means you need to remove its' Hardened 6 and its' Cosmic Defensive 'virtual' enhancements. It doesn't actually have these enhancements but I'm treating it as if it does so that I can calculate how much of a limitation value to apply.

Originally Posted by Varyon

The idea would be to be able to build something like IT:DR 100, but rather than have AD (2) reduce it to IT:DR 50, it reduces it much further (how far would depend on how the ability is built), possibly all the way down to IT:DR 1 (meaning it is completely negated).

I'm currently considering setting it up where you can have multiple levels of the AF Limitation, and each additional level effectively doubles any positive armor divisor. So, let's say we set AF at -20%. -20% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR in half, -40% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to a quarter, -60% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to an eighth, -80% means AD(2) cuts your IT:DR to a sixteenth (going lower means you might be able to find some Enhancements, as -80% is as low as you can go).

EDIT: I should note that there is a lower limit of IT:DR 1 (that is, no IT:DR), and that you can only get the discount if the reduction fully drops your IT:DR (so if you had IT:DR 3, you would get -20% for the first reduction, but either no points back or maybe -10% or so for the second, as it really only multiplies the AD by 1.5).

Ah.

I'd use the AD limitation values, (-30% for 0.5, -50% for 0.2, -70% for 0.1); which would make the -30% level multiply the effective AD by 2, the -50% multiply the effective AD by 5 and the -70% multiply the effective AD by 10.

IT:DR /100 (Vulnerable to AD (x1), -40%), would have its' divisor reduced by AD normally. AD (2) would mean /50, AD (5) would be /20, etc.
IT:DR /100 (Vulnerable to AD (x2), -70%), would have its' divisor reduced by ADx2. AD (2) would mean /25, AD (5) would be /10, etc.
IT:DR /100 (Vulnerable to AD (x5), -90%), would have its' divisor reduced by ADx5. AD (2) would mean /10, AD (5) would be /4, etc.
IT:DR /100 (Vulnerable to AD (x10), -110%), would have its' divisor reduced by ADx10. AD (2) would mean /5, AD (5) would be /2, etc.

[naloth]

Normally damage multipliers (which effectively this is) qualify for a different type of innate attack (or striker if it's hth). In this case, though, it's probably better to define an alternate version of AP which only works on IT:DR for a prospective attack mode. You could even use the rules for modifying normal ST damage to add it onto normal ST.

Perhaps 10-20% per level where each level lowers your divisor by a step (10 -> 7 -> 5 -> 3 -> 2 -> 1)?

[Varyon]

Sunrunner: Oh, I see - for some reason I was thinking the Cosmic Enhancement to DR was +150%, hence my confusion. I also like the way you have the "AD multiplier" effect set up, so I think I'll go with that.
One slight change - I'll probably drop the Limitation value of AF from -40% to -30%, as AF actually gives IT:DR a small enhancement - it's extra effective against attacks with poor (<1) armor divisors, like HP ammo and the like.

naloth: I want IT:DR (AF) to be susceptible to normal armor divisors, not require attacks that interact with it to have a new Enhancement (although a new Enhancement for attacks to reduce normal IT:DR has some merit).


I think we've got IT:DR (AF) hashed out pretty well, although I am considering just simplifying things and calling it Injury Tolerance: Armored Flesh, setting its base cost as IT:DR with -30%, and going from there. I might even consider the option to have Hardened IT:AF (bringing it closer to baseline IT:DR) but that will require some additional thought for pricing schemes...