IT: Diffuse and Grappling

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Except ...

It shouldn't be mirroring Affects Substantial (which is about having OTHER abilities that work from the Insubstantial side), but rather Partial Change (which allows physical interaction).

I don't see why it would be like Partial Change. And Kromm's message indicated that it was specifically mirroring Affects Substantial.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I don't see why it would be like Partial Change.

I just explained that. Affects Substantial is required to have OTHER abilities that work from the Insubstantial side), but rather Partial Change is the modifier that allows an Insubstantial to do what we're talking about here -- become physical enough to touch other characters.

And Kromm's message indicated that it was specifically mirroring Affects Substantial.

Yes, I'm saying that's a mistake.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

I just explained that. Affects Substantial is required to have OTHER abilities that work from the Insubstantial side), but rather Partial Change is the modifier that allows an Insubstantial to do what we're talking about here -- become physical enough to touch other characters.

Insubstantiality with Partial Change will allow you to poke or nudge, but nothing more violent than that, and certainly not a grapple (unless you also have Affects Substantial).

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Yes, I'm saying that's a mistake.

LOL

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

Insubstantiality with Partial Change will allow you to poke or nudge, but nothing more violent than that, and certainly not a grapple (unless you also have Affects Substantial).

Makes no sense. How can you poke without being able to stab?

Anyway, if Diffuse was meant to require something extra, it would have said so.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Makes no sense. How can you poke without being able to stab?

For game purposes, a touch and attack are different things. But I do see your point.

Note: To stab you would need both the +100% version AND Can Carry Objects. (AND Effects Substantial in my interpretation)

I am pretty dissatisfied with the description of Partial Change actually, it's quite vague. It's kind of Effects Substantial for just your own mundane ST, but they seem to specifically avoid talking about fighting/wielding weapons...

But if you have an innate attack that fires out of your hand, even +100% Partial change won't let you fire it off from a substantial arm on an insubstantial body, you need Affects Substantial to do that...

Originally Posted by FAQ

5.3.1. If I have the Partial Enhancement, do I also need the Affect Substantial Enhancement?

You don't *have* to take it. If all you want to do is use your hands to poke things (and, with Can Carry Objects, carry things), Partial will do all on its own. If you want to use other abilities in the material world – like use your hand to Deathtouch people – then you also need Affect Substantial.

Maybe you can slash with a knife with Can Carry Objects and +100% Partial change on Insubstantiality. But you can't use other "material" powers for certain.


Another note on the applicability of Partial Change... With partial, any body part you do make use of, is vulnerable and no longer protected by the advantage. This doesn't parallel Swarm very well unless youar implying vulnerable hands appear to do the grappling.

[Dalren]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

But if you have an innate attack that fires out of your hand, even +100% Partial change won't let you fire it off from a substantial arm on an insubstantial body, you need Affects Substantial to do that...

What about Leech which requires grappling? Is it viable with just Partial or does it require Affects Substantial?

Also, I found this post where Kromm seems to say the opposite of the answer he gave here. However, it's pretty old and I haven't confirmed the validity with him.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=10

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Dalren

What about Leech which requires grappling? Is it viable with just Partial or does it require Affects Substantial?

Also, I found this post where Kromm seems to say the opposite of the answer he gave here. However, it's pretty old and I haven't confirmed the validity with him.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=10

Leech definitely requires Affects Substantial, not only on Insubstantial but also on the Leech advantage itself.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Dalren

What about Leech which requires grappling? Is it viable with just Partial or does it require Affects Substantial?

Also, I found this post where Kromm seems to say the opposite of the answer he gave here. However, it's pretty old and I haven't confirmed the validity with him.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...2&postcount=10

Leech, being another power, EXPRESSLY requires Affects Substantial on your Insubstantiality (and Leech) to work.