Stats for Ancient Roman (Gladiator) Weapons?

[Bathawk]

I was wondering if this appeared in any supplements? Particularly I was hoping to find the stats for a "Gladius"...or should I just use the stats for a shortsword?

[johndallman]

Martial Arts: Gladiators has a lot on this.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

I was wondering if this appeared in any supplements? Particularly I was hoping to find the stats for a "Gladius"...or should I just use the stats for a shortsword?

As JohnDallman tells you there is a supplement just for making gladiators but while the Roman gladiators did use a few rather odd weapons the Gladius wasn't one of them.

The Gladius is an iconic shortsword and should use those stats unless as a GM you want to get into a lot of fine detail.

From known examples the gladius seems to have been on the heavy side of shortswords, very often more than the 2lbs Gurps lists. A GM who wanted to create stats for a "Heavy Shortsword" and perhaps give it another pt of damage along with a higher Min ST would be within his rights. This would blur the difference between Thrusting Broadsword and Shortsword but what rules make a bright line for the sake of clarity was often rather blurry in the real world.

[Bathawk]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As JohnDallman tells you there is a supplement just for making gladiators but while the Roman gladiators did use a few rather odd weapons the Gladius wasn't one of them.

The Gladius is an iconic shortsword and should use those stats unless as a GM you want to get into a lot of fine detail.

From known examples the gladius seems to have been on the heavy side of shortswords, very often more than the 2lbs Gurps lists. A GM who wanted to create stats for a "Heavy Shortsword" and perhaps give it another pt of damage along with a higher Min ST would be within his rights. This would blur the difference between Thrusting Broadsword and Shortsword but what rules make a bright line for the sake of clarity was often rather blurry in the real world.

I'm guessing a Gladius was used more for "hacking" than impalig foes?

[Proteus]

Originally Posted by Bathawk

I'm guessing a Gladius was used more for "hacking" than impalig foes?

Actually, Roman period military manuals emphasize stabbing: it’s more easily done through a shield-wall, and can cause deeper wounds (vitals for x3!).

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Proteus

Actually, Roman period military manuals emphasize stabbing: it’s more easily done through a shield-wall, and can cause deeper wounds (vitals for x3!).

Yes! This is correct.
One: it actually gives a longer reach than a slash & two: it's a more lethal wound.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Tinman

Yes! This is correct.
One: it actually gives a longer reach than a slash & two: it's a more lethal wound.

If this thread stays around long enough Dan Howard might show up with period quotes of how the Gladius Hispaniensis was also a formidable cutting weapon. I know he's done it before.

Feel free to give the gladius +1 damage to Thrust _and_ Cut. I've seen modern replicas cut deeply on Forged in Fire.

You can go even further out into the weeds chasing the difference between tempered high carbon steel (probably at least Fine at TL2) and low carbon iron (Cheap). That might be the biggest change to default rules. Modern blades of inadequate carbon content or poor tempering cut very poorly.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If this thread stays around long enough Dan Howard might show up with period quotes of how the Gladius Hispaniensis was also a formidable cutting weapon. I know he's done it before.

Feel free to give the gladius +1 damage to Thrust _and_ Cut. I've seen modern replicas cut deeply on Forged in Fire.

You can go even further out into the weeds chasing the difference between tempered high carbon steel (probably at least Fine at TL2) and low carbon iron (Cheap). That might be the biggest change to default rules. Modern blades of inadequate carbon content or poor tempering cut very poorly.

They were excellent cutting weapons (I never said they were not).
It's just that stab wounds to the torso are much more lethal than cuts (which can also be deadly. I'm not saying they cant be.)

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If this thread stays around long enough Dan Howard might show up with period quotes of how the Gladius Hispaniensis was also a formidable cutting weapon. I know he's done it before.

Originally Posted by Tinman

They were excellent cutting weapons (I never said they were not).
It's just that stab wounds to the torso are much more lethal than cuts (which can also be deadly. I'm not saying they cant be.)

IIRC, the Hispaniensis was a later, longer bladed design wasn't it (hence the discriminator Hispaniensis - Spanish)?
That said, did the gladiators use legionary fighting styles? I can see the doctores not being keen on a style which leads to quick scuffles and dead gladiators when you could have a more performative style that leads to longer, visually impressive fights with a lot of showy, shallow cuts and plenty of non-fatal blood loss.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by The Colonel

IIRC, the Hispaniensis was a later, longer bladed design wasn't it (hence the discriminator Hispaniensis - Spanish)?
.

The adjective would be describing a place of origin rather than a modern nation. I believe "Hispania" was what is now the Iberian Peninsula rather than the modern nation-state of Spain.

The quote was early period when them backwards foreigners were first encountering units armed with gladii compared to the more narrow thrust-only weapons (like javelins) they would have been used to.

Mars alone knows if it was true at the time it was written but it was the sort of story Roman sources were telling at that time.

Those shallow wounds in gladiatorial combat would have been more likely with strange things like scissore. On the other hand, Sica do almost nothing but cut deeply.