Are Talents overpowered?

[smurf]

Just because people get smarter doesn't mean they get more observant or gain greater will power.

Talents are nice to keep reg characters within normal ranges with a good set of skills in their talent.

It started with Magery...
Psis do not have to be uber brains.
The kid on the block can have a gift of fixing cars.
Hikers do not need pro skills to pick up stuff and comfortably walk with their gear.
Academic skills means that the characters in the Big Bang Theory can be that smart, neourotic and socially inept because they have talent.

[Mathulhu]

All of this makes me like PKs IQ! cost 20 points house rule.

http://www.mygurps.com/index.php?p=i...v=0#houserules

[ericthered]

It should be pointed out a lot of people who use IQ! DON'T see it as a point crock. I certainly don't. There are a number of character concepts that require high intelligence but low will or perception.

I also like the IQ! as 20 points house rule because it makes talents feel right and encourages more varied smart players.

I also waive the 4 level limit on talent as long as the scores make sense: an IQ of 8 and 6 levels of talent make lots of sense for some savants.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

At any rate, if you don't use a disadvantage limit, can you really still complain that it's broken if you can get HT! for 1 point or that IQ! breaks Business Acumen or whatever?

If anything, you are reversing my observation (complaint is too strong). IQ! is not broken because it breaks Business Acumen. Business Acumen is poorly conceived for a variety of reasons.

One of those is that it competes poorly even with regular IQ. Don't buy down Per and Will if it doesn't fit your character concept. I'd happily defend the value of Per and Will for 5pts each before I claimed that Business Acumen was right and whatever "broke" it must be wrong.

[vicky_molokh]

IQ! probably makes more sense at [15] than either [10] or [20]. But really, a big problem in GURPS is that the differences between various levels of breadth are so small.

A Technique is [1/level]. A skill is [4/leve] (if high enough). A Talent covering several skills is [5], one covering a lot is [10], IQ! is [10] while IQ is [20].

This means that you are strongly discouraging from specialized diversification: you shouldn't take more than 3 Techniques per Skill, more than two high-level Skills per Talent, or more than two small Talents (if even that), most of the time. Given that GURPS has (IIRC) more than a hundred skills, this is kinda unpleasant.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If anything, you are reversing my observation (complaint is too strong). IQ! is not broken because it breaks Business Acumen. Business Acumen is poorly conceived for a variety of reasons.

One of those is that it competes poorly even with regular IQ. Don't buy down Per and Will if it doesn't fit your character concept. I'd happily defend the value of Per and Will for 5pts each before I claimed that Business Acumen was right and whatever "broke" it must be wrong.

problem is with that logic is Business Acumen is a published part of the game, IQ! is pure unpublished fan material, hence IQ! Must by logic be poorly considered add on as it breaks existing parts of the game.

Of courses there is a 3rd group who use IQ! and thinks it's does brake anything, more power to them.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

problem is with that logic is Business Acumen is a published part of the game, IQ! is pure unpublished fan material, hence IQ! Must by logic be poorly considered add on as it breaks existing parts of the game.

Of courses there is a 3rd group who use IQ! and thinks it's does brake anything, more power to them.

IQ! is a mathematical derivation, not a fan rule. Its the fact that to get IQ's skill bonuses (and nothing else) you have to pay 10 points. You don't have to change anything from RAW, you just have to watch your disad limit (which is optional, and varies from game to game).

There is also long history on this forum of declaring stuff to be "lesser RAW" on grounds of it being a carry-over from 3e that doesn't play well with the rest of the system.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

problem is with that logic is Business Acumen is a published part of the game, IQ! is pure unpublished fan material, hence IQ! Must by logic be poorly considered add on as it breaks existing parts of the game.

IQ! isn't an optional and unpublished house rule created by fans. It's a fundamental observation about the pricing logic of the game.

That pricing logic comes before Business Acumen and any other Talent and can not be waived away as unsanctioned. It's s a very important part of the core of the game.

20 pts spent on IQ (notice no !) gets you plus 1 IQ _and_+ 1 Per and Will which are worth 5cp each (bought down or not). This is not something made up by fans.

If 10pts spent on Business Acumen and 5pts spent on Per and Will each isn't at least as good as 20pts spent on straight IQ then Business Acumen isn't priced right and not the other way around.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

IQ! isn't an optional and unpublished house rule created by fans. It's a fundamental observation about the pricing logic of the game.

20 pts spent on IQ (notice no !) gets you plus 1 IQ _and_+ 1 Per and Will which are worth 5cp each (bought down or not). This is not something made up by fans.

Except you can not spend 10points an gain +1 IQ!... what you can do is spend 20 point to get +1 IQ, then at character only get -5 for -1 Will and -5 for -1 Per
and once is play you cait the point back if you aquired additional level


so yes it IS unpublished house rule that you can spend 10 point on IQ! it doesn't exist.

[Mathulhu]

Don't forget +1 Business Acumen +1 Per and +1 Will gives you +1 reaction +1 IQ does not.

Talents have their place, a bonus to skills and reaction, but it's not good enough. More respect needs to be given to the reaction bonus it seems to be an after thought. That would help balance it out.