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Old 05-25-2022, 09:01 PM   #1
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Immediate Action Bonus

Some weapons presents some features that - for marketing sake, nonetheless - promises more user-friendly interfaces regarding its handling.

In look of that, obviously, older/cheaper/simpler weapons offers less features, while others models of weapons offers more, like ambidestry buttons, charging handles, foward assist assembly, etc.

Making to the point: All these features could - or should - justify a bonus - for the high-end weapons - or a Penalty - for the lower-end weapons - to Immediate Action rolls (High-Tech, 4ed, p. 81)?

Thanks in advance,
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:54 AM   #2
Ndreare
 
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Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Help me understand what you are discussing. How would this bonus be differnt from the Aim bonus provided by accuracy?
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Old 05-26-2022, 09:12 AM   #3
sir_pudding
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Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Making to the point: All these features could - or should - justify a bonus - for the high-end weapons - or a Penalty - for the lower-end weapons - to Immediate Action rolls (High-Tech, 4ed, p. 81)?
Having weapon ergonomics that suit you is a good explanation for a Weapon Bond perk. Weapon Bond is a bonus to any skills to use the weapon so it applies to Immediate Action. The box even specifically mentions this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndreare View Post
Help me understand what you are discussing. How would this bonus be differnt from the Aim bonus provided by accuracy?
Accuracy isn't directly related to weapon ergonomics, it's largely a consequence of ballistic variables and secondarily by the quality of the sights. It doesn't help you clear stoppages.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 05-26-2022 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 05-26-2022, 02:10 PM   #4
Pursuivant
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Most improvements are likely to be small and incremental which basically represent improvements for higher TL or slightly higher HT or Malf scores for individual brands of weapons.

The simplest RAW method of handling weapons with significantly better Immediate Action features compared to nearly identical weapons is to make them Fine or Very Fine (Reliable) (HT p. 79).

That's sort of backwards, but higher Malf can represent a "potential problem" that the shooter corrected in time using the gun's features.

If you want to create actual house rules, you could assume that +1 to Immediate Action rolls counts as a variant of Fine-Quality (Reliable), while a +2 bonus is Very Fine.

The canonical way of handling poor-quality, old, or badly-abused weapons is to reduce their Acc, Malf, HT, and/or HP scores.

For historical guns with known, specific problems, just write up the specific problem as part of the gun's description, e.g., the WW1-era Chauchat MG or Ross sniper rifle.

Price any benefits or problems into the gun's $ cost.
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Old 05-26-2022, 02:58 PM   #5
KarlKost
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brazil
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Some weapons presents some features that - for marketing sake, nonetheless - promises more user-friendly interfaces regarding its handling.

In look of that, obviously, older/cheaper/simpler weapons offers less features, while others models of weapons offers more, like ambidestry buttons, charging handles, foward assist assembly, etc.

Making to the point: All these features could - or should - justify a bonus - for the high-end weapons - or a Penalty - for the lower-end weapons - to Immediate Action rolls (High-Tech, 4ed, p. 81)?

Thanks in advance,
What's the average, the thing that most people more commonly use?

If the usual is to have the pretty guns, then the ugly weapons give a penalty.

If however the "normal" are the guns without all that funky stuff, then the funky stuff provides a bonus.

That is, it depends on YOUR setting.

If we were to take it for real life, I'd say it's a bonus, since most weapons do not have that.

However, in a matter of a few years this idea could vastly popularize (due to marketing for example), to the point that ALL weapons made thereafter would have, thus older weapons without those features would actually give a penalty.

That's a bit of a chicken-egg question you got there. Very good.
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Old 05-26-2022, 05:55 PM   #6
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

The reality is that almost every weapon modification you can come up with rounds to zero at the resolution of GURPS.
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:47 PM   #7
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ndreare View Post
Help me understand what you are discussing. How would this bonus be differnt from the Aim bonus provided by accuracy?
This bonus, or penalty, would apply only in immediate action rolls representing better handling features.
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Old 05-26-2022, 08:58 PM   #8
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
Most improvements are likely to be small and incremental which basically represent improvements for higher TL or slightly higher HT or Malf scores for individual brands of weapons.

The simplest RAW method of handling weapons with significantly better Immediate Action features compared to nearly identical weapons is to make them Fine or Very Fine (Reliable) (HT p. 79).

That's sort of backwards, but higher Malf can represent a "potential problem" that the shooter corrected in time using the gun's features.

If you want to create actual house rules, you could assume that +1 to Immediate Action rolls counts as a variant of Fine-Quality (Reliable), while a +2 bonus is Very Fine.

The canonical way of handling poor-quality, old, or badly-abused weapons is to reduce their Acc, Malf, HT, and/or HP scores.

For historical guns with known, specific problems, just write up the specific problem as part of the gun's description, e.g., the WW1-era Chauchat MG or Ross sniper rifle.

Price any benefits or problems into the gun's $ cost.
Very thoughtful considerations.

It could be a way to live up, if I choose to apply this on my campaigns.

Maybe I would stick with the Fine or Very Fine Reliable thing for weapons developed from ground-up to be more reliable, or better, relative to others.

Thank you
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Old 05-26-2022, 09:01 PM   #9
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The reality is that almost every weapon modification you can come up with rounds to zero at the resolution of GURPS.
This is true. Actually, my original question could be answered with some rules already in the system, like Familiarity, Abuse, Weapon Bond, etc.
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Old 05-26-2022, 09:13 PM   #10
General Lee
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Somewhere between Cape Horn and Zenith Point
Default Re: Immediate Action Bonus

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlKost View Post
What's the average, the thing that most people more commonly use?

If the usual is to have the pretty guns, then the ugly weapons give a penalty.

If however the "normal" are the guns without all that funky stuff, then the funky stuff provides a bonus.

That is, it depends on YOUR setting.

If we were to take it for real life, I'd say it's a bonus, since most weapons do not have that.

However, in a matter of a few years this idea could vastly popularize (due to marketing for example), to the point that ALL weapons made thereafter would have, thus older weapons without those features would actually give a penalty.

That's a bit of a chicken-egg question you got there. Very good.
Some metaphysical considerations.

It was not my intention to formulate this slippery slope question, or chiken-egg question, but it come out that way...

The way you put it is a really strong question of Point Of View of the setting to relate different weapons systems or platforms.

But, as Sir_Pudding, Anthony and Pursuivant put it on their posts, its more something that already exists in the system, like Wepon Bond or Familiarity Modifiers, than something that only apply to the specific role of immediate action.

Maybe, I would use the Quality bonus (+1 for Fine Reliable/ +2 for Very Fine Reliable) for Immediate Action role, as well.

EDIT: From Brazil? Cool. I'm living in Rio de Janeiro.

Last edited by General Lee; 05-26-2022 at 09:15 PM. Reason: Comments
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