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Old 04-27-2022, 09:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...

Thank you very much for those very detailed and interesting answers. I read them in detail (including Kromm’s ones – and I will read that whole other thread as soon as possible).

They are very good and completely answered to my doubts on that topic.

Write you soon for another question... Thanks again.
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Old 04-27-2022, 10:15 AM   #12
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I'd have the karateka mock and taunt the cowardly thug mercilessly until he attacks or leaves, and if he leaves, laugh, point and laugh and mock some more.

If he comes back, mock again.

If that counts as speaking/free action then you could evaluate the thug for some extra to hit chance, too.
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Old 04-27-2022, 11:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...

The karateka can also use such unfashionable options as Evaluate and Feint (or both) to boost the chance of his attack landing.
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Old 04-27-2022, 12:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
The karateka can also use such unfashionable options as Evaluate and Feint (or both) to boost the chance of his attack landing.
That's usually the way these things work in fiction. The thug ducks and backpedals frantically, the karateka snorts derisively and evaluates the thug with a quick up and down glance, and then the karateka takes him down.

In reality, decking someone who is obviously trying to escape a fight usually lands you in front of a judge. Depends on the situation.
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Old 04-27-2022, 12:55 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Lovewyrm View Post
I'd have the karateka mock and taunt the cowardly thug mercilessly until he attacks or leaves, and if he leaves, laugh, point and laugh and mock some more.

If he comes back, mock again.

If that counts as speaking/free action then you could evaluate the thug for some extra to hit chance, too.
I think you're missing that there's nothing preventing the "cowardly" thug from attacking. He starts at Reach C (punching range) of the karateka; the karateka punches at him, and he Retreats to Reach 1. On his turn, he Steps back into Reach C, and punches the karateka (who may similarly Retreat, then come back).

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The karateka can also use such unfashionable options as Evaluate and Feint (or both) to boost the chance of his attack landing.
He's better off attacking twice than Evaluating for a mere +1 to hit and then attacking (or attacking thrice rather than Evaluating for +2, or four times rather than Evaluating for +3). Feint, given their high skill disparity, may be a different story. The average result there is going to be around a -4 to the thug's defense (actually a little more of a penalty than this, as a bad result on Feint doesn't give a bonus, but close enough), dropping it to 7 and boosting the chance to land a hit to 76% (using Deceptive Attack actually drops the overall hit chance slightly in this case, to 70.6%). If the karateka had instead just attacked both rounds, using DA (for maximum overall hit chance) would mean the thug had a 63% chance to avoid getting hit each round, or around a 40% chance to avoid both hits - a 60% chance to land at least one hit. So, in this case, Feint followed by Attack is indeed a good option.

Generally speaking, Feint is only worthwhile when you are markedly more skilled - at least with feint - than your foe but the foe still has a good chance of successfully defending. That's generally the case for foes using large shields, foes who have Retreating Dodge in excess of their Block/Parry, or foes who you need to hit in a hit location that eats up a lot of your skill, leaving little or no room for Deceptive Attack.
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Old 04-28-2022, 12:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
I think you're missing that there's nothing preventing the "cowardly" thug from attacking. He starts at Reach C (punching range) of the karateka; the karateka punches at him, and he Retreats to Reach 1. On his turn, he Steps back into Reach C, and punches the karateka (who may similarly Retreat, then come back).
Definetely mock, or at the very least, curse at the thug. Just imagine the fight. Moving an entire yard and then coming back?

Imagine staying in one spot and some monkey thug jumps around like that every second.
Irritating, even if it's technically effective.

Edit:
Also potentially needlessly escalating.

What would YOU do if you got the upper hand on that smart aleck after doing you dirty like that? I'd have to be playing a really darn level headed cop or something equally professional to not at least wise crack back, if not worse.

For example: Imagine grabbing mr springbean here, and you're standing next to a (n open) window.
"You enjoy jumping, huh?"

Edit2:
And while attacking instead of evaluating is mathematically better, I would still do it in this case, due to psychology.

If you were the springbean thug, and you've gotten away with karateka whiffing his catfight slap punches.
What would you do if he suddenly stopped playing along, still defending, but not attacking, and his eyes now scan you with intent.
You can see the gears moving, the karateka is hatching a plan.

Would you still be doing your monkey routine? Maybe...but breaking a pattern tends to mess with people, at least a little bit.

After all, who would fight like this?
A thug who has entered the metaverse and has read the GURPS source books and knows what he can and can't do?
Or a believable human? :P

Last edited by Lovewyrm; 04-28-2022 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 04-28-2022, 04:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...

Trained fighters are mobile, there's nothing weird about that. "Attack and fly out", "stick and move", "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" exist for a reason. I've trained to move while defending (in GURPS terms retreats or slips) in everything I have ever studied, armed or not.
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Old 04-28-2022, 04:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Trained fighters are mobile, there's nothing weird about that. "Attack and fly out", "stick and move", "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" exist for a reason. I've trained to move while defending (in GURPS terms retreats or slips) in everything I have ever studied, armed or not.
You move back and forth 1 yard every second while also having the steadyness to deliver a solid attack?
Impressive.

Makes me wonder why boxers bother with weaving instead of doing the superior flea.
Edit:
Or in other words:
When's the last time you've seen a butterfly boxer go back and forth like that every single second, no evalution, only attacks (because mathematically they're better)?

It's a ridiculous situation and you'd call a monkey like that out, too.

Last edited by Lovewyrm; 04-28-2022 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 04-28-2022, 04:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...

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You move back and forth 1 yard every second while also having the steadyness to deliver a solid attack?
Within the abstractions of GURPS combat, sure.1 hex between undersized miniatures does not mean exactly one yard distance between fighters. A single step, especially in a squared stance, isn't three entire feet, either. The battlemap positions also don't represent a static situation, but rather dynamic elements at some average state during the turn.
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Makes me wonder why boxers bother with weaving instead of doing the superior flea.
In GURPS combat, with Reach C attacks, slipping sideways instead of retreating backwards keeps you in contact range for your own punches.
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Old 04-28-2022, 04:50 AM   #20
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Default Re: Questions while reading rules more accurately...

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
Within the abstractions of GURPS combat, sure.1 hex between undersized miniatures does not mean exactly one yard distance between fighters. A single step, especially in a squared stance, isn't three entire feet, either. The battlemap positions also don't represent a static situation, but rather dynamic elements at some average state during the turn.

In GURPS combat, with Reach C attacks, slipping sideways instead of retreating backwards keeps you in contact range for your own punches.
But they don't stay in range, or it wouldn't be a retreat.
Sliding around is dodging, weaving, not retreating.
Well, maybe 'technically' it is a retreat, but I don't know how common it is to really think that way.

"And a nice retreat from Mike Tyson!"
"What did you thay?! Mike Tython never retreath!"
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