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Old 12-04-2021, 03:18 PM   #1
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Independent x Persistent

So I am researching TK interactions and cannot figure out what Independent wold do.

In FAQ section its written:
"5.1.6. When enhancing Advantages (e.g. Control) with Persistent or Independent, what are the reasons for choosing either one over the other?

Control + Persistent has a duration that is indefinite. It could be days if you have enough caffeine in you. This is balanced by the fact that you have to sit there and concentrate.

Control + Independent is a flat (well, more flat than the above, hopefully you know what I mean) duration of a few minutes. This is balanced by the fact that you can walk away."

And I am simply confused as Independent wold suggest that you can keep Control over the material doing what you "programmed" it to do and that Persistent wold simply extend the duration of what you did to it, like keep pile of material in a unstable shape. It also tells that Persistent require you to concentrate to keep the ability working it it
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Old 12-04-2021, 07:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Independent x Persistent

I would think Independent would be good for complicated but repetitive tasks, while Persistent would let it maintain what it was doing.
I dont think the Concentration maneuver is needed for either situation.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:16 PM   #3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Independent x Persistent

Independent essentially functions as though you were continuing to use Concentrate its entire duration, without requiring you to do so, but you have to define what exactly it's doing during that time beforehand. For TK, I'd say you could tell it to keep striking some foe with a TK'd sword, or attempt to grapple and pin a particular foe, and it will do that - but nothing else.

Persistent just holds things at a steady-state of sorts for its duration (10 seconds by default). However, while Independent only allows for a single instance to be active at a time, there's no such limit for Persistent - provided you have the duration, you could literally have hundreds of instances running at once with no issues. Once you've lifted something into the air, you can just leave it there and move on to the next thing, relying on Persistent to keep it up.

With Independent, you can use TK to lift a shield and order it to stay in front of you and Block attacks that come at you, without using a Maneuver each round to keep it up, but you can't use TK while that's going on. With Persistent, you could lift a piece of cover in front of you and have it stay there, then go on and use TK on other stuff, but that cover wouldn't move with you or actively intercept attacks.
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Old 12-05-2021, 04:45 PM   #4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Default Re: Independent x Persistent

The way I've always interpreted it is that Persistent is about the Area of Effect, Independent is about the effect itself.

With Persistent, the selected Area continues to hit/affect the area/people within it with the ability in question. It's most appropriate for Affliction (an area that continues forces someone to resist an effect if they enter that area) or Innate Attack (an area that continues to damage those who enter it), but could be applied to other advantages depending on what you're trying to do. Whatever it is, it is confined to that original area when you activated the power.

Independent is about the ability itself. The ability continues to function after you stop concentrating on it, repeating the last command/instruction you gave it. If it used an area of effect when you activated/used your ability, the Independent trait is not necessarily limited to it... an Independent TK can move about anywhere within the range of TK. But, it will only move according to the commands you gave... e.g., a TK to "drag that person behind me" will follow you along.

I'm simplifying here with my example as TK is probably not the best one to build with both modifiers, but for example using a Persistent TK to TK punch everyone in an area effect would continue to hit anyone who enters the area with TK punches while those who leave the area would be safe. On the other hand, with an Independent TK to TK punch people in an area effect, the TK would continue to follow the same people no matter where they went (so long as they remained in range) but would not attack others who later entered the original area.
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Old 12-05-2021, 05:43 PM   #5
Join Date: Feb 2021
Default Re: Independent x Persistent

Yeah, I read the interactions a loot like you read, that about programing Tk to keep doing something as protecting you, and it gets interesting if you look for the sorcery dancing weapon in the egg plant blog.
I don't know if it wold be possible but, as you can chose to limite how much St you are puting in one action, you cold also limit the Tk and with the rest use it as normal Tk or start to program another object?

But, also the FAQ said that persistent wold run as long you concentrate while the Independent wold run for some time but you cold simply forget and go away, wish looks like to corroborate with what Independent say, that it wold keep doing what you programmed it to do even if you got killed of stunned.
So I don't know, but look like to be swapped the words or something in the FAQ.
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