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Old 03-15-2016, 03:38 AM   #41
Tomsdad
 
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
If am experienced hunter in the 1980s expected to have to engage a horde of bears, Godless killing machines that they are, what kind of gun is he likely to obtain for the purpose?

Could you at that time get a semi-automatic with a detachable magazine in any of the common bear calibers, such as .375 H&H or .416 Rigby? Or at least a bolt-action rifle with a fair number of Shots?
Maybe a FN BAR Magnum, .300 WM it already comes in pretty powerful at 8d pi, give it a nasty round* (or even a bigger one). It has a detachable box so quick reloads. It's been around since the 60's so I'm guessing lots of accessories are available e.g extended magazines.

It's got plenty of range and is accurate so you won't need to wait for the bear to get close

But if you in dense woods again a powerful shotgun with slugs for that tasty pi++ damage mod, Franchi SPAS 15 comes out in 86'


*against bears HP or frangible

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-15-2016 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Maybe a FN BAR Magnum, .300 WM it already comes in powerful 8d pi, give it a nasty round* (or even a bigger one). It has a detachable box so quick reloads. It's been around since the 60's so I'm guessing lots of accessories are available e.g extended magazines.

It's got plenty of range and is accurate so you won't need to wait for the bear to get close
The FN BAR Magnum is probably the best for the job. It comes in up to .338 Win Mag. I wonder if extended magazines even exist, though.

Maybe semi-automatic is not the way to go. Lever-action is fast enough, especially if the magazine is big. ROF 2 and Shots 8+1 would beat ROF 3 and Shots 3+1 all hollow. Even bolt action may be acceptable, as long as the ammunition capacity and/or speed to reload are good.

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But if you in dense woods again a powerful shotgun with slugs for that tasty pi++ damage mod, Franchi SPAS 15 comes out in 86'
I figured that someone living in woods where he maybe expected that his home might be invaded by groups of Godless killing machine bears might own a 12-gauge with an extended magazine, a big game rifle and a high-capacity automatic rifle. Not a rich man by any means, so economy choices, but one that knows guns and has spent his entire Status 0 budget for the past several years on setting himself up to defend himself and his community.

I was figuring a Remington 870 with a 7+1 capacity and sights for slugs, an SKS or maybe a Ruger or AR-15 design in a decent deer caliber and maybe a Brno 602 (CZ 550) in a practical bear-killing caliber, especially if he could get a 5 round detachable magazine.

Other options might be a heavy-caliber lever-action, like the Winchester '95 or the Marlin 444. A lot of fairly affordable options in modern .45-70 chamberings exist, but few real customers are looking for high ammunition capacity. How practical is getting an extended tubular magazine with Shots 6+ in a good bear-killing caliber? Edit: Seems you can get a Shots 6+1 or even a Shots 7+1 .45-70 lever-action pretty easily, so I'm thinking lever-action is the way to go. Fits the character, too. Old school.

He'd own an old .30-30 lever-action and some kind of varmint gun already, from when he was a kid.
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Last edited by Icelander; 03-15-2016 at 04:55 AM.
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:48 AM   #43
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

I remember something about a .458 Winchester magnum in a lever action can't remember the details (or find them on a quick search) I think the round was unpopular in the 80's so it may have been cheap then.
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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I remember something about a .458 Winchester magnum in a lever action can't remember the details (or find them on a quick search) I think the round was unpopular in the 80's so it may have been cheap then.
You can get them in lever-actions, at least custom built, but I think that only the low-powered loads in .458 Win Mag play nice with lever guns.

I think it makes sense for my hypothetical character to have a .45-70 lever-action with an extended tube magazine, maybe a Marlin 1895 with a 18.5" barrel and Shots 6+1, as one of his anti-bear guns. His CQC anti-bear gun would be a 12G 3" shotgun with an extended magazine, at least Shots 7+1.

It might not be too implausible for him to have bought a gun through Canada in the 1980s and obtained something like a Brno or Mauser action in .404 NE/Jeffery or a similar gun in something up to .416 Rigby or .500 Jeffery.

What would be the best combination of economical price point and good performance in the 1980s for something that was functionally equivalent to the Mannlicher-Schönauer Grosswildbüchse in 12.7x70mm Schüler in GURPS terms?
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:50 AM   #45
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

BAR Safari .300 or .338 WM? Was it already in production during the eighties?
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Old 03-15-2016, 08:47 AM   #46
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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That's true it's definitely a "Wayne manufacturing" kind of thing. DU is a pretty controlled substance, I wonder if there is an alternative high density material* that can be used (might not have the pyrophoric effect though)
Depleted uranium is pretty easily acquired on the open market (it's the enriched uranium that is likely to get you lots of questions by unpleasant men. Especially the highly enriched uranium. Especially ESPECIALLY highly enriched uranium in 25 kg quantities. Although admittedly, that would take out a monster real good. Not exactly subtle, though). Natural uranium is easily acquired, too (they normally use DU for tank guns because you just have so much of the stuff lying around as waste from your enrichment plants so it is cheap).

If you really don't like uranium for some reason, tungsten, tungsten carbide, iridium, osmium, platinum, and gold all have the density. Gold might be a bit too deformable for high penetration against hard armor, but at the low velocity you will get from a shotgun I doubt you'd see much difference in any of the others. Don't expect to see pyrophoric action from uranium at these speeds, either.

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Old 03-15-2016, 01:06 PM   #47
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

Honestly, a competent shooter ought to do fine with the .30-.30. Especially if they only face black bears, brown/grizzly bears are unlikely in most of the lower 48 states in the U.S. in 1986.
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:03 PM   #48
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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Depleted uranium is pretty easily acquired on the open market
Aha fair enough!


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Originally Posted by lwcamp View Post
(it's the enriched uranium that is likely to get you lots of questions by unpleasant men. Especially the highly enriched uranium. Especially ESPECIALLY highly enriched uranium in 25 kg quantities. Although admittedly, that would take out a monster real good. Not exactly subtle, though). Natural uranium is easily acquired, too (they normally use DU for tank guns because you just have so much of the stuff lying around as waste from your enrichment plants so it is cheap).

If you really don't like uranium for some reason, tungsten, tungsten carbide, iridium, osmium, platinum, and gold all have the density. Gold might be a bit too deformable for high penetration against hard armor, but at the low velocity you will get from a shotgun I doubt you'd see much difference in any of the others. Don't expect to see pyrophoric action from uranium at these speeds, either.

Luke
Cool, I figured DU is used because as you say it's a by product that governments have easy access to. Other materials as dense likely being more expensive for them (tungsten carbide used to be the choice IIRC).

Edit: actually taking you point about it being low velocity, what's your opinion on the effectiveness of such rounds from a shotgun, would you keep tha x1.5 & x1.7 bonus?

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-15-2016 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:05 PM   #49
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
OTOH, the legal 16" barrel is kind of a waste, as with Bulk -5 you can get an AR-10 chambered for 45 Raptor, which gets you Shots 20+1 of a more powerful round than either the .50 Beowulf or the .458 SOCOM. So if you have to carry a legal semi-automatic rifle for monster hunting, I'd probably go with that.
Or just get an AR in the old standby big game cartridge, the 458 WM.
http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear...nemo-omen-458/
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:30 PM   #50
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Default Re: Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

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Or just get an AR in the old standby big game cartridge, the 458 WM.
http://www.petersenshunting.com/gear...nemo-omen-458/
That looks like a pretty good contender for what Icelander was originally looking for. I think that's a good compromise point between handy and high capacity and powerful round)

anyone any guesses what the stats for that might be?

Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-16-2016 at 07:10 AM.
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