08-08-2022, 12:20 AM | #31 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
If you didn't prepare your own food you more likely had a room in a house and ate meals from its kitchen. This might be paying for room and board, an expensive option. But you might also be a servant, too poor to marry and likely to stay that way (even if you weren't a slave).
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
08-08-2022, 01:27 AM | #32 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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08-08-2022, 03:12 AM | #33 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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Ever spend a night without shelter in the rain? I have. Not pleasant in the slightest. Ever spend the night without food and shelter (thankfully, I've NOT). But having a buddy who has served in the military under those conditions, it ain't fun. So - food and water will be primary goals. Now what happened with the King? Did he say "I will give you sufficient food to get you through the first landing, send you food in shipments every 3 months, and I will lend you an expedition leader and some soldiers" or did he say "you're on your own"? That is going to have a major impact on things. Why? Foodstuffs that are openly available to animals are going to need to be protected. Shelter is going to be necessary - which means physical work. Latrines are going to need to be necessary - and hopefully far enough away from where people are eating and sleeping. At a basic rule of thumb, four pounds of food per day per person, for a 1400 person settlement is going to be about 2.8 tons of food DAILY. Now for the bad news - do you know how much wood is required for cooking fires necessary to create meals for 1400 people? Ever wonder how much water is necessary for all the cooking and cleaning up afterwards? Then there are a fair number of children that need to be watched over. The question is always going to boil down to available "manpower". It takes manpower to cut down trees. It takes manpower to clear a field of those things that impede plowing. It takes manpower and ox-power to plow a field at least twice to make it presentable for placing seed in it. It takes manpower to handle hunting party needs as well as butchering needs once the animals are successfully hunted. So, Adults are outnumbered by 2.5 to 1 in your scenario unles the families of 400 also include children. My parents handled five kids - so, that worked out ok - for RECREATIONAL camping, not a permanent settlement. Each adult with 2.5 kids is almost the same as two married adults with five children. Frankly, you're going to have accidents, sickness, and even abandonments where people just walk away thinking life is better elsewhere than here. Food likely will be rationed and LOST due to simple things like a skunk wandering in to the camp and just eating refuse from the meals that were not disposed of properly or quickly. Ever watch a bunch of people wander through Buffalo or Bisons and discover only too quickly the meaning of "Mess with the bull, get the horns"? City people can wander into situations that others more savy would avoid like the plague. In the end? Tent City first is the way. Building a fortification of some sort along with ways to GUARD the foodstuffs becomes a main priority. There is a reason that palisades go up regardless of tech levels. Even African Villages create barriers of thorny brush to keep out animals and predators - so this is not something that is invented as a result of technology - it is a primary NEED the moment you have any gathering of humans who intend to stay in one place. After that, then come the things that make life easier. Smithies are needed so that broken things can be repaired. Muddy roads need to be traversed more easily for when it rains. Higher ground needs to be built up because when it rains, water flows downhill - it absolutely SUCKS to have all of your bedding and gear soaked because you picked a low lying spot for the water to either rush through or pool around after a major rain storm. Campfires tend to get lined with stones - and if they're trench fires, someone has to start to deal with the accumulated ash from the fires (said ash can be repurposed for other needs). So, what would you as GM, think NEEDS to be built first for the people in question once they've built their temporary shelters and defensible strong points that are likely little more than wooden forts with an 6 to 8 foot high wooden palisade? Permanent Housing? Perhaps at first, those permanent buildings are little more than storehouses for your foodstuffs (better security from animals and theft). Maybe the buildings are dual purpose - originally housing and storage sites, that eventually will be abandoned to only storage sites. Now, you mentioned FANTASY. What kind of Mageborn are you thinking of? Mageborn 0 and 1? Build a few of them and see what they can do. What ever you do, don't treat people as walking powerstones. People have emotions and feelings. What happens when the first critical failure occurs involving a group of ceremonial castings? Note that critical spell failures affect EVERYONE involved - not just the lead spell caster. As for children in ceremonial spell casting - ever see how little focus some have at that tender age? That's why I use a Random die roller to determine "Reaction rolls" for the participants of the ceremonial castings. Only those whose reactions are a modified 12+ grant an energy point to the ceremony. Those whose reactions are worse, subtract energy. The means I use also includes a "reaction modifier" for when the GM believes that the people would likely FAVOR the spell being cast - but, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Farmer A can be in a bitter feud with Farmer B, and at an emotional level, secretly hopes the spells that bless Farm B's fields fail. Kid might be torqued because Momma spanked his sorry butt and hopes EVERYTHING fails. Ah well - once you know how it starts, you simply decide how it continues from there. If you want ideas for manpower costs for things such as building walls, roads, motte and bailey fortifications, simple buildings etc - let me know and I'll respond via email, regarding those books to look for on EBAY that may help, or PDF's that are potentially useful (Such as CASTLES AND RUINS as a PDF available at drivethrurpg.com) HARN MANOR has some pretty good rules for realistic farming needs (manpower required to assart lands formerly wild per acre) along with projected yields for each bushel of grain you plant. In addition, there are Fishing rules available from Columbia Games which will specify how much in the way of fish a fisherman can garner. Remember that 2.8 tons of necessary food daily target that I mentioned? The fishing rules would be helpful. If your one mage has the ability to summon fish - the city can build a structure that lets fish in, but makes it difficult for them to leave - thereby making it easier to get fish on the dinner plate. Hope this helps. If you want to contact me via email, simply right click on my name, select email - and SJGames will let you send me an email. :)
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08-08-2022, 09:42 AM | #34 | |
Join Date: Dec 2020
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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The farer into the northern regions of roman territory you come the more houses have ways to heat the rooms, from a open fireplace to hypocausts and everything in between. But we are speaking here about a newly founded city in a medieval style, were most households had a fireplace, for warmth and food preparation, even in the almshouses people had fireplaces, with all the risk of fire hazards. We have in my region a medieval / post medieval settlement for museum purposes, and even the poorest had a fireplace. |
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08-08-2022, 12:01 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
In ancient and medieval times it was also possible to buy your own food take it to a restaurant and have someone cook it for you. Sort of the opposite of BYOB/corkage.
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08-08-2022, 12:40 PM | #36 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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The fact that such jobs are referred to as "clerical" (or "clarks" or "clerks") is the tell; they were originally from more literate religious communities, at least in the Western world. In some cases they might be lay brothers in a religious order, but more likely they were products of local cathedral schools. At TL3 to 5, they were sufficiently unusual that there was a real tension between "white collar" workers and more traditional laborers. Even if they weren't paid any better, the nature of their work made them different. They had different tastes and were often regarded as being effete because they didn't perform as much manual labor. Laborers also treated them with suspicion because they spent much more time in close proximity to upper management. There's been some historical work on this topic, but I can't recall exact titles ATM. Quote:
Unless the refugees were spontaneously generated when the city fell, or they were all living on top of each other like in modern Developing World slum communities or Imperial Roman multistorey insulae (tenements), it's possible that they had sufficient space to keep a garden or a chicken run. In any case, don't discount how close pre-modern folks were to the rural environment. Many incomers were just a generation or so removed from the countryside. (Historically, cities were where excess rural population went to die. Excess labor got soaked up by cities, with poor laborers either dying of disease or never having enough money to start families.) Most cities were also small enough that rural areas were just a short walk away. For example, many London neighborhoods have names which indicate that they were mostly rural areas in pre-modern times (e.g., Shepherd's Bush or Walham Forest). There would also be "commons" close to cities where animals could be grazed (E.g., Hampstead Heath in London, or Boston Commons - Boston, MA) and "parks" (managed forests) which could be used as sources of firewood and wild game (e.g., Hyde Park in London). Pre-modern people were also far more familiar with large animals than we are. As the only land-mobile source of traction and heavy lifting, cities might be filled with horses (cities that banned them kept them in stables outside the walls), with constant deliveries of hay and other fodder to keep them fed and to provide bedding. There would be large numbers of people, such as ostlers (grooms), farriers, and teamsters who trained, used, or took care of horses. That experience easily translates to handling other types of large livestock. Livestock would regularly be driven into the city in herds for slaughter, so city dwellers might see cattle, pigs, and other large animals on a regular basis. It was not uncommon for wealthier families to keep a cow for milk, a pig for slaughter, and a small flock of chickens, ducks, or geese. A common complaint in many medieval cities was pigs foraging in the streets. Poorer people might buy live animals at livestock markets within the city, and take them to a butcher to be slaughtered. Last edited by Pursuivant; 08-08-2022 at 12:59 PM. |
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08-08-2022, 10:42 PM | #37 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pioneer Valley
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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(The funny thing is that this is quite parallel to a big scenario in my own campaign, where the PCs used a Timegate to extract refugees from a giant city that was in the process of being sacked, destroyed, and the inhabitants eaten. As it happened, touchdown was at the national library, so what they got were a lot of scholars and scribes, as well as the menial support staff, families, and a few customers and nearby pushcart vendors.)
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08-09-2022, 12:34 AM | #38 | |
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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In any case, while many pre-modern cities had very chaotic street layouts, especially if they grew organically from a small settlement, the Greeks (and later the Romans) would often lay out cities in a square grid when creating a significant city from scratch. See e.g. the plan for Pella.
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08-09-2022, 09:41 AM | #39 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more. |
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08-09-2022, 10:22 AM | #40 | |
Join Date: May 2010
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Re: what does a recently founded fantasy city look like?
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Handle is a character from the Star*Drive setting (a.k.a. d20 Future), not my real name. |
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