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Old 05-20-2024, 05:24 PM   #51
Agemegos
 
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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Actually, now that I look at it, the 90's was apparently a good decade for sympathetic dragons.
And there was Roberta MacAvoy's (excellent) Tea With The Black Dragon in 1983.
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Old 05-20-2024, 07:54 PM   #52
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And there was Roberta MacAvoy's (excellent) Tea With The Black Dragon in 1983.
The Dragonriders of Pern series started in 1967. That's the earliest I can think of off hand of helpful dragons in modern F/SF, though oriental dragons have been at least moderately benign for a long time.
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:16 PM   #53
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The Dragonriders of Pern series started in 1967. That's the earliest I can think of off hand of helpful dragons in modern F/SF, though oriental dragons have been at least moderately benign for a long time.
And friendly dragons aren't that rare in children's literature before that. Puff the Magic Dragon is 1963, E Nesbit's "The Last of the Dragons" is 1925, Kenneth Grahame's "The Reluctant Dragon" is 1898.

And yeah, semi-friendly oriental dragon/demigods probably go back about as far as Chinese literature does, so, what, the 210 BC Qin book burning maybe?
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:39 PM   #54
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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The Dragonriders of Pern series started in 1967.
Were there romances between dragons and humans in that?
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:43 PM   #55
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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Were there romances between dragons and humans in that?
Since Pern was science fiction and dragons shape-shifting into humans was thus off the table, not in the same way that Dragonlance had. In the broader sense of "intimate and exclusive emotional attachment," yes, every single book except Harper Hall and Dragonsdawn
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Old 05-20-2024, 09:46 PM   #56
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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The Dragonriders of Pern series started in 1967. That's the earliest I can think of off hand of helpful dragons in modern F/SF, though oriental dragons have been at least moderately benign for a long time.
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Were there romances between dragons and humans in that?
No, but humans and dragons form lifelong telepathic bonds. Which force you to have sex with the rider of the dragon your dragon is having sex with. Something not adequately covered in the "Become a dragon rider!" briefing.
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Old 05-20-2024, 10:00 PM   #57
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S yes, every single book except Harper Hall and Dragonsdawn
Those had "fire lizards" basically "shoulder dragons".
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Old 05-20-2024, 11:57 PM   #58
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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My parents had a couple of those that they bought as souvenirs at the whaling station in Albany WA in the early 1970s. Also, a set of ivory buttons carved from whales’ teeth. The larger tooth was at least a factor of 100 short of being any 20 kg tusk.
One of the more interesting uses was a sailor whom made a sap with one that I found in an online museum. Naturally he is going to put some work into the tool he made to help him get home from liberty alive.
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Old 05-21-2024, 06:19 AM   #59
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Default Re: trying to find the Cost of ivory

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The Dragonriders of Pern series started in 1967. That's the earliest I can think of off hand of helpful dragons in modern F/SF, though oriental dragons have been at least moderately benign for a long time.
The Earthsea books—the original three dating 1968–72—feature sometimes helpful dragons; the language of magic is the language spoken by dragons, apparently. And there is an even earlier appearance of a dragon, in "The Rule of Names," published 1964, though the dragon there, Mr. Underhill, is not helpful: quite the reverse.
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Old 05-21-2024, 06:22 AM   #60
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No, but humans and dragons form lifelong telepathic bonds. Which force you to have sex with the rider of the dragon your dragon is having sex with. Something not adequately covered in the "Become a dragon rider!" briefing.
The Iskryne books, by Sarah Monette and Elizabeth Bear, explore some implications of that that McCaffrey steered around, though with wolves instead of dragons. I've always suspected that it was an intentional commentary on McCaffrey.
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