how useful is Luck?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If you mean "Isn't that what the Active limitation stops you from doing", then yes.

I think he meant that it 'factors in' (or gives a cost to) the 'doing it retroactively' part of Luck.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by captaincomic

When I first read the Luck advantage, I immediatly thought "No." - "I'm not going to allow this for my PCs."


Note: I haven't played GURPS yet, I'm just in the planning phase for an post-apocalyptic campaign. Maybe it's just that I want may players to actually feel the fear when their PCs are in danger.

Here's the thing, both from a game perspective and in terms of a narrative description of real life.

Think about any war hero who survives to win a Silver Star, Distinguished Service Cross/Distinguished Flying Cross/Navy Cross or Medal of Honor. Each tale reads like a series of "he did WHAT?" and "no way he could have survived."

Think about D-Day, and some of the scenes (dramatic, to be sure) in Saving Private Ryan. Why one person never gets off the beach, while another lives to capture the Eagle's Nest?

In many genres and games, the difference between "deader than hell" and "hero of the story" is one failed defense roll, and in GURPS, you usually can't "soak" damage.

So, Luck exists to both mimic something that's seen in reality (heroic reality, but there you go) as well as to mimic the dramatic conventions/necessities of a game based in "yeah, if you get shot, you die" level of believability.

Don't think of it as "this lets the PCs cheat!" so much as "this lets the PCs be as heroic as they wish to be."

In a Horror campaign . . . no way. In anything adventure-related, I can see where Bruno would give it out to all PCs.

Doug

[Ts_]

Originally Posted by captaincomic

Is it just me, or do some of you also forbid Luck in your games?[...}Maybe it's just that I want may players to actually feel the fear when their PCs are in danger.

Like many things in GURPS, it depends on the campaign. If it's a cinematic over-the-top campaign like in Dungeon Fantasy, Luck is just another power that let's you survive more easily. If one doesn't want to create a new character every so often, survival is good for one's enjoyment.

In a gritty campaign, which your post-apocalyptic campaign could very well be, PCs often struggle to survive. That might even be the whole point of the campaign. Then it can be a very inappropriate advantage, destroying the feel of the setting.

Regards
Ts

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Langy

I think he meant that it 'factors in' (or gives a cost to) the 'doing it retroactively' part of Luck.

Bingo. You win a set of steak knives.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Bingo. You win a set of steak knives.

Ah, gotcha.

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

In a Horror campaign . . . no way. In anything adventure-related, I can see where Bruno would give it out to all PCs.

I'm definitely someone who runs action-adventure games, almost exclusively. I kept trying to run other styles, and failing miserably, but I've learned my lesson :)

An especial factor in the decision is our groups familiarity with other game systems where you get some sort of "luck point" type mechanic - my players have all expressed a fondness for the mechanic, and I kind of like it myself, so at this point I don't see why it shouldn't be a blanket rule.

[ULFGARD]

Funny this should come up... In the ROS game I'm playing in, I picked luck as one of my signature abilities. Sure, I could have chosen Combat Reflexes, but the sheer utility has already saved my character's life. It has also allowed a critical hiking roll to succeed (we were hiking overland to warn another small settlement about new 'bot interest in our general area). I've also "thrown it away" sometimes on rolls that I really wanted to have succeed -- in this case, it's a huge gamble, but a good one, since 1 of 3 of these have succeeded and been very important.

In campaigns I have run in the past, I've only seen a handful of characters with it. I don't think it's "unrealistic" in the sense that there really *ARE* people who just seem lucky (hence the expression it's better to be lucky than to be good). But in a really gritty game, it could take away from the suspense.

[captaincomic]

An especial factor in the decision is our groups familiarity with other game systems where you get some sort of "luck point" type mechanic - my players have all expressed a fondness for the mechanic, and I kind of like it myself, so at this point I don't see why it shouldn't be a blanket rule.

I can see why you give it to everyone. I think it's very powerful and I would also consider giving it to all of my PCs or not allowing it at all. I don't really know why, but I don't like the idea of just some of the players taking the luck advantage. (I know that some of my players are more or less power-gamers, and I'm pretty sure they would take at least one level of luck).

I also like for example the willpower mechanic from World of Darkness. But willpower isn't a once/hour thing, but you have to be careful of when to use it as you generally don't have much and only get one back when you sleep.
The thing that comes closest to willpower in GURPS is probably Buying Successes or Extra Effort.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by ULFGARD

I don't think it's "unrealistic" in the sense that there really *ARE* people who just seem lucky (hence the expression it's better to be lucky than to be good). But in a really gritty game, it could take away from the suspense.

One thing to note is that, even if it is called 'luck', it doesn't have to be the expression of luck.
It can also be seen as being very competent, either as a cinematic hero, or just as a very skilled/gifted character(especially with aspected luck).

If you don't have luck, you will by game mechanics crit fail from time to time.
While this does add to the 'gaming suspense' factor, it is not always logical.
With 'luck', those crit fail will occur less often, except in very stressful time (ie when you are chaining lots of rolls).

celjabba

[captaincomic]

If you don't have luck, you will by game mechanics crit fail from time to time.
While this does add to the 'gaming suspense' factor, it is not always logical.
With 'luck', those crit fail will occur less often, except in very stressful time (ie when you are chaining lots of rolls).

I do find it realistic that you critical fail sometimes, even in non-stressful situations. I did drop the coffeecup on a very relaxed morining (critically failing the very easy skill of cup-carrying) :) Or does it mean I have the unluckiness disadvantage?

I think that critically failing in non-combat situations, when you are not about to get seriously hurt or die, are maybe the most fun parts of the game. Heck even in combat we always loved to roll on the critical miss table and say "You trow your weapon away!", roll for direction "Of course right in the lake". :)

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by captaincomic

I think that critically failing in non-combat situations, when you are not about to get seriously hurt or die, are maybe the most fun parts of the game. Heck even in combat we always loved to roll on the critical miss table and say "You trow your weapon away!", roll for direction "Of course right in the lake". :)

Do you understand that in Gurps, a crit fail in combat (or an enemiy's crit success) is highly likely to result in character death?

This isn't about preventing amusing mishaps, It's about not replacing characters.