GURPS Action 5: Dictionary of Danger

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

3rd degree burns really don't hurt at all. At least not until things start to heal...

Having suffered multiple crippling injuries to my foot (yay glass), I can attest that if an injury is serious enough, it doesn't hurt for a few hours, but your actions are slowed (DX penalty is totally reasonable). Shock (in the medical sense) is an amazing thing. In every instance of crippling my foot, I didnt even notice for a few minutes (when I needed my foot).

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Yeah, receiving the burn hurts like nothing else, because the pain receptors fire just fine as they're cooked and destroyed. Afterward, there isn't much pain because the receptors aren't there. It's similar to how your arm doesn't hurt much after it's chopped off and sitting on the ground next to you, but I'm sure the "getting chopped off" part isn't much fun.

Also, the bits around the third degree burn are often perfectly able to send pain signals from the second degree burns.

[Kromm]

As for the term "shock," it has numerous meanings even in the medical world. Circulatory shock (encompassing cardiogenic, distributive, hypovolemic, and obstructive shock) is merely one possibility, distinct from cold shock, electric shock, insulin shock, and a whole bunch of stuff archaically known as "shock" (e.g., "shell shock"). When GURPS speaks of "faint bordering on shock" (p. B361) and "treating shock" (p. B424), it's referring to circulatory shock. The game uses the word this way relatively rarely . . . in fact, only in those two instances.

Outside of strict medical usage, "shock" has the common English definitions of "a surprise" and "a sudden impact" (the word's sense in such uses as "shock absorber") – and somewhere between those two, "a sudden psychological disturbance." When GURPS gives a penalty to DX, IQ, and skills as a result of losing HP (as on pp. B381, B419), it's using the word in this sense; the penalty is a consequence of the immediate physical and psychological reaction to a blow. The game uses the word this way most often.

GURPS also uses the word in yet other ways: "the shock of a mounted charge" (p. B396), meaning the psychological impact of being overrun by horses; "thermal shock" (p. B430), meaning the cold shock response, which is a medical term for something other than circulatory shock; "electric shock" (p. B432), meaning injury caused by electricity; etc.

It's a versatile word that's difficult or impossible to avoid when talking about bad things happening to people. Generally, though, what's intended is clear from context. The only time it gets foggy is when a wound causes both a shock penalty (immediate physical and psychological reaction) and injury (circulatory shock). But the two aren't the same, and it's possible to have one without the other. A supernatural or technological effect can stimulate nociceptors to cause pain without injury (GURPS usually calls this an "affliction"), and not all injury is painful (for instance, HP lost when FP go negative).

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Also, the bits around the third degree burn are often perfectly able to send pain signals from the second degree burns.

My experience is that you're 100% correct. While it's possible to have a burn of degree n that's highly localized with no surrounding damage of less than degree n, my injuries were more like concentric 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. The huge area with lesser-degree burns hurt like hell – but now, decades later, it's only the central area where the flesh was cooked almost to the bone that has scarring and numbness. And I think I may have cooked the bones on my knees, as they're experiencing pain that can't be explained by a fracture, tear, cartilage degeneration, etc.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

In my experience getting a third degree burn is more painful than being hit by a van going ~30 mph.

It wasn't for me (it wasn't a van, but a cadillac... so gas mileage my vary).

The burn was painful for a moment (like an all consuming flash for the briefest of moments - not even enough for me to be startled) and then nothing but a dull ache from the area (so I didn't realize how bad it was for almost an hour). After that, while it was healing, it only hurt whenever I got too close to something hot (it hurt like the dickens).

Whereas the caddy knocked me unconscious and then for next few weeks my entire left side and two cracked ribs on the right hurt (quite a bit actually, enough to interfere with my ease of movement). The hit dislocated my left hip, knee, ankle, and shoulder and when I landed I rolled across a curb* and cracked my ribs.


* At least that's what I was told had happened: I was knocked across the road, rolled across the curb, across the sidewalk, and into the grass, rolled to my feet, swayed for a moment while looking around in confusion, and then collapsed unconscious (I probably also had a concussion). The paramedics woke me up and I told them I was fine if they'd just tap up my ribs, because "I had to go to work". So the cop gave me ride to work (the chain on my bicycle had twisted do I couldn't ride... which with my hip, knee, and ankle in mild aching distress would have been unpleasant, so... lucky me? but I did have to walk home... so.. unlucky me?).

I was stupidly nigh indestructible† when I was young. Though... I did go home early as my normally inflexible and terrible boss actually seemed to feel sorry for me (and it was a slow day - which yes, he emphasized).



† Kids, youths, young peoples, if you're reading this, don't get hit by cars injure yourself badly. It might not hurt too much when you're young... but when you survive long enough to become an old person, all that pain returns with interest.

Originally Posted by Humabout

Having suffered multiple crippling injuries to my foot (yay glass), I can attest that if an injury is serious enough, it doesn't hurt for a few hours, but your actions are slowed (DX penalty is totally reasonable). Shock (in the medical sense) is an amazing thing. In every instance of crippling my foot, I didnt even notice for a few minutes (when I needed my foot).

Bone pain is the worst. Actually, nix that, ear canal and teeth pain are the worst I've ever felt. While broken bone pain was just exhausting, an infected tooth and an ear infection (separate instances) made me want to cut the affected area out of my body with crude self-surgery. That pain was thought crushingly intense.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Kromm

My experience is that you're 100% correct. While it's possible to have a burn of degree n that's highly localized with no surrounding damage of less than degree n, my injuries were more like concentric 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. The huge area with lesser-degree burns hurt like hell – but now, decades later, it's only the central area where the flesh was cooked almost to the bone that has scarring and numbness. And I think I may have cooked the bones on my knees, as they're experiencing pain that can't be explained by a fracture, tear, cartilage degeneration, etc.

That sounds like a fourth degree burn.

I only had third degree burns on the arms, and as it was beef oil, it stuck to and burned only those spots* (6"x1" strip on the left forearm, 3"x2" patch on the right). I had few speckled 2nd degree burns on my face and hands, but those were so tiny they were healed within days, a week top. The arms took almost 6 months before they were completely healed (that is no soreness, discoloration, no extreme heat sensitivity, etc).



* Though, yeah, there were probably thin second and first degree burns surrounding the area.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Bone pain is the worst. Actually, nix that, ear canal and teeth pain are the worst I've ever felt. While broken bone pain was just exhausting, an infected tooth and an ear infection (separate instances) made me want to cut the affected area out of my body with crude self-surgery. That pain was thought crushingly intense.

In my unlucky experience, I would rate kidney stone pain above an infected root canal tooth. Gallbladers stones come third, but it is a close match. Broken bones aren't even close, imho.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

In my unlucky experience, I would rate kidney stone pain above an infected root canal tooth. Gallbladers stones come third, but it is a close match. Broken bones aren't even close, imho.

A lady of my acquantaince rates gallbladder probelms as worse than 18 hours in labor.

I always try and be thankful for things I've never suffered through.

[Kromm]

Gallbladder pain is quite terrible.

My gallbladder woes were misdiagnosed when I was about 20, so I was not operated on until I was 40. In the intervening 20 years, the gallbladder became nonfunctional, as it was filled with stones bigger and more numerous than the BBs in a 00 buckshot round. It also developed adhesions to the intestine, liver, and pancreas. The eventual surgery took two hours longer than scheduled. Afterward, the surgeon calmly explained that I was at risk of death, as my common bile duct was compromised.

Anyway, in the months leading up to said surgery, I experienced such joys as fainting from pain in the ER but being denied painkillers because such drugs could interfere with anesthesia should I require emergency surgery. When I rated the pain at "6 or 7 out of 10, because I suppose lots of things are worse," the triage nurse – who had gone through childbirth – explained it was generally considered worse than childbirth, and normally rated at 9-10. It just gets less press than chronic pain disorders because it's quickly resolved with surgery.

I'm not saying I'd take 8 or even 6 out of 10 every day for the rest of my life; I'd rather have 10 out of 10 for a few hours here and there, and then have it cured. But 10 out of 10 definitely led me to believe that no, we hadn't exaggerated the agony affliction in the Basic Set. Pain really can render you utterly useless and fatigue you so badly that you pass out.

Playtesting isn't all fun and games.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I'm not saying I'd take 8 or even 6 out of 10 every day for the rest of my life; I'd rather have 10 out of 10 for a few hours here and there, and then have it cured. But 10 out of 10 definitely led me to believe that no, we hadn't exaggerated the agony affliction in the Basic Set. Pain really can render you utterly useless and fatigue you so badly that you pass out.

I'm guessing the part where you continue taking FP loss after you pass out, which converts to HP loss and eventually kills you is probably not working as intended, though?