Distinguishing Divine Favor from Shamanistic (Assisting Spirits) Magic

[Minuteman37]

Ok SJGames I'm in the middle of developing my own homebrew setting and understandably I've come across a few dilemmas regarding the various magic systems being utilised in the setting.

So far I have the following

Alchemy- Pretty standard as far as lore is concerned, you experiment with magically sensitive ingredients and uncover new formulas for potions.

Divine Favor- Also pretty standard, the gods sometimes elect paragons to represent there will on the material plane.

Symbol Magic- Symbol magic origin is that it is the language in which the universe was created by the gods and through study mortals can uncover its secrets allowing them to change the fabric of spacetime.

Syntactic Magic- A symbol mage can reach a point in his studies were he learns the grand secrets of the universe and ascends to a higher stat of being. He can speak the language of creation instead of having to write it down he also loses his sight, can not speak lies and becomes precognitive.

Now where I'm having trouble is I'd also like to include some sort of shamanistic casting for a more common and less preparational magic system, but would like to distinguish it from Divine Favor a some meaningful way. Any Ideas?

[Frost]

Firstly can I say you are very brave running with that many variants of a magic system. Having tried it myself and found it to be a pain to keep everything straight I now confign myself to two or three flavours of the same system.

As for destinguishing between devine and shamanic magics, I can see a numberof options. The simplest option would be to ignore the problem all together and leave the two options mechanicaly identical. Even if the mechanics are the same the trappings and effects should show some obvious differences these however can be dealt with at the character level just through differing spell lists, focuses etc.

If you are not affraid of the extra complexity then the other quick fix is to add another style of magic, the classic treatment would be to give devine casters either standard GURPS magic style spells, magic as powers (probably with an acessibilty limitation- perhaps my favourate choice) or threashold magic while your shamans get either path magic or one of its derivatives.

[Minuteman37]

Originally Posted by Frost

Firstly can I say you are very brave running with that many variants of a magic system. Having tried it myself and found it to be a pain to keep everything straight I now confign myself to two or three flavours of the same system.

Meh, it's less then it seems, Alchemy & Symbol Magic are the two kinds of academic magic so I like to think of them more as just two fascists of the same system and Syntactic isn't the kind of magic that's suitable for PCs to have untill the game reaches superhero power levels.

Originally Posted by Frost

As for distinguishing between divine and shamanic magics, I can see a number of options. The simplest option would be to ignore the problem all together and leave the two options mechanically identical. Even if the mechanics are the same the trappings and effects should show some obvious differences these however can be dealt with at the character level just through differing spell lists, focuses etc.

These two systems will be by far the most commonly encountered kinds of magic so distinguishing them is very important from a players perspective.

Originally Posted by Frost

If you are not affraid of the extra complexity then the other quick fix is to add another style of magic, the classic treatment would be to give devine casters either standard GURPS magic style spells, magic as powers (probably with an acessibilty limitation- perhaps my favourate choice) or threashold magic while your shamans get either path magic or one of its derivatives.

Wait are you saying I should forget the Divine Favor system?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Minuteman37

Ok SJGames I'm in the middle of developing my own homebrew setting and understandably I've come across a few dilemmas regarding the various magic systems being utilised in the setting.

So far I have the following

Alchemy- Pretty standard as far as lore is concerned, you experiment with magically sensitive ingredients and uncover new formulas for potions.

Divine Favor- Also pretty standard, the gods sometimes elect paragons to represent there will on the material plane.

Symbol Magic- Symbol magic origin is that it is the language in which the universe was created by the gods and through study mortals can uncover its secrets allowing them to change the fabric of spacetime.

Syntactic Magic- A symbol mage can reach a point in his studies were he learns the grand secrets of the universe and ascends to a higher stat of being. He can speak the language of creation instead of having to write it down he also loses his sight, can not speak lies and becomes precognitive.

Now where I'm having trouble is I'd also like to include some sort of shamanistic casting for a more common and less preparational magic system, but would like to distinguish it from Divine Favor a some meaningful way. Any Ideas?

Divine Favor is having a god as a Patron. Shamanistic is more like a supernatural version of Streetwise or Area Knowledge.

[whswhs]

I'm running a campaign where most magic is quasi-shamanic in an animistically based world. I'm using a variant on path and book magic from GURPS Thaumatology. It seems to work pretty well.

In terms of behavior and relationships, a god is a Patron who grants blessings; but a spirit is more like a Contact who does favors, or maybe at most an Ally who can be invoked. Most spirits have their own places, where you can get in touch with them, but don't travel around.

[dataweaver]

Originally Posted by Minuteman37

Ok SJGames I'm in the middle of developing my own homebrew setting and understandably I've come across a few dilemmas regarding the various magic systems being utilised in the setting.

So far I have the following

Alchemy- Pretty standard as far as lore is concerned, you experiment with magically sensitive ingredients and uncover new formulas for potions.

Divine Favor- Also pretty standard, the gods sometimes elect paragons to represent there will on the material plane.

Symbol Magic- Symbol magic origin is that it is the language in which the universe was created by the gods and through study mortals can uncover its secrets allowing them to change the fabric of spacetime.

Syntactic Magic- A symbol mage can reach a point in his studies were he learns the grand secrets of the universe and ascends to a higher stat of being. He can speak the language of creation instead of having to write it down he also loses his sight, can not speak lies and becomes precognitive.

Now where I'm having trouble is I'd also like to include some sort of shamanistic casting for a more common and less preparational magic system, but would like to distinguish it from Divine Favor a some meaningful way. Any Ideas?

The easy answer: Book Magic, using the energy accumulating model, with the Spirit Assistance letting you bypass the normal energy accumulation step. I would not allow Book Adept, as that reduces the pressure to rely on spirit support. Each Book corresponds to one spirit (or possibly one kind of spirit). This already feels distinct from Divine Favor; but the fact that Spirit Assistance warps your nature and gradually turns you into a copy of your spiritual benefactor should kick that distinctiveness up a notch.

You can also use the effect-shaping model, if you'd like; GURPS Horror suggests that spirit assistance paired with effect-shaping takes the form of negating penalties instead of negating energy costs.

[Minuteman37]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

The easy answer: Book Magic, using the energy accumulating model, with the Spirit Assistance letting you bypass the normal energy accumulation step. I would not allow Book Adept, as that reduces the pressure to rely on spirit support. Each Book corresponds to one spirit (or possibly one kind of spirit). This already feels distinct from Divine Favor; but the fact that Spirit Assistance warps your nature and gradually turns you into a copy of your spiritual benefactor should kick that distinctiveness up a notch.

You can also use the effect-shaping model, if you'd like; GURPS Horror suggests that spirit assistance paired with effect-shaping takes the form of negating penalties instead of negating energy costs.

Sorry I'm not familiar with book magic where can I find it?

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by Minuteman37

Sorry I'm not familiar with book magic where can I find it?

Book Magic is one of the switches for Path/Book Magic, in GURPS: Thaumatology.

[Minuteman37]

Originally Posted by Diomedes

Book Magic is one of the switches for Path/Book Magic, in GURPS: Thaumatology.

Ah, I really haven't given Thaumatology the read through it needs.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Minuteman37

Ah, I really haven't given Thaumatology the read through it needs.

I myself do not use the spirit assistance model for this. I simply assume that in any ritual magic, spirits are present behind the scenes making things work.