Ritual Path input requested

[Ffej]

Just writing to see if anyone has any valuable experience to draw upon for advice.

I'm working on kind of a urban fantasy / low-powered-supers campaign. Maybe at 300pts but not sure yet. I'm considering incorporating Ritual Path Magic as well as characters with magical 'Powers' My thinking is that the act of casting spells should feel like an Art to Master rather than just a Power to Have. I like RPM because it's flexible but potentially challenging to use effectively, pretty much same reasons I like the GURPS system in general. But not everyone is a magic user, and some people in this world, with certain Unusual Backgrounds, will have abilities that can be called powers as well.

My main question is do I have at all a chance of maintaining balance in a scenario like this?

Also, I really like the idea of spell casters with thematic specializations so I'm considering allowing for Aspected and One College Only Magery. That way you get characters who only get the advantage of their magery if the spell involves something like, say, fire, just for example. Has anyone tried combining limited Magery with the RPM system yet?

Thanks to anyone who sees fit to respond.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Ffej

Just writing to see if anyone has any valuable experience to draw upon for advice.

I'm working on kind of a urban fantasy / low-powered-supers campaign. Maybe at 300pts but not sure yet. I'm considering incorporating Ritual Path Magic as well as characters with magical 'Powers' My thinking is that the act of casting spells should feel like an Art to Master rather than just a Power to Have. I like RPM because it's flexible but potentially challenging to use effectively, pretty much same reasons I like the GURPS system in general. But not everyone is a magic user, and some people in this world, with certain Unusual Backgrounds, will have abilities that can be called powers as well.

My main question is do I have at all a chance of maintaining balance in a scenario like this?

Also, I really like the idea of spell casters with thematic specializations so I'm considering allowing for Aspected and One College Only Magery. That way you get characters who only get the advantage of their magery if the spell involves something like, say, fire, just for example. Has anyone tried combining limited Magery with the RPM system yet?

Thanks to anyone who sees fit to respond.

Until the RPM book comes out* (I hear it's comming out soon), the only rules for RPM come from the Monster Hunters books, and the characters in that system would range from 200 to 400 starting points. This means that you can definitely have 300 point characters that are competent with magic. Not masters of magic like the MH Witch, but competent nonetheless. The loss of Ritual Adept (one of the first things to cut IMHO) means that spellcasters are awesome out of combat, but need to have some foresight in combat to prepare the charms they will use. Do not punish casters for their versatility. RPM is very versatile, but the wrong choices will lead to characters feeling useless in time critical situations, even with Ritual Adept. Given enough time, magic can solve most situations, but it isn't often the most practical or efficient way to do so, and skills and defaults can usually do the same.

As for one college magery/thematic magical focus, AFAIK, there are no actual rules right now for that, but they say that the RPM book will address this. I don't feel like you can export standard magery limitations to RPM.

Waiting for PK or Ghostdancer (The RPM Gurus) to come and give extra details...

*I wish the damn thing came out already, it's blocking one of my personal projects, and if you know me, you can puzzle what that means.

[vierasmarius]

PK suggested the use of Higher Purpose to represent "styles" or "traditions", giving a bonus to all Path skills if the spell matches the character's style. Limiting Adept would give a mage for whom a certain style of magic is "second nature", which fits nicely. Limiting Magery would mean you'd have a different skill cap and dedicated energy pool for certain spells. That could work, but is a little more fiddly.

[Ffej]

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm pretty anxious for that book to come out now myself.

One thing I would like cleared up now is that, for the Thaumatology skill, the basic manual states "add Magery to IQ when learning this skill, just as for spells." and it seems that this is not the case for the RPM system, but Monster Hunters does not address this in any part that I could find.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Ffej

One thing I would like cleared up now is that, for the Thaumatology skill, the basic manual states "add Magery to IQ when learning this skill, just as for spells." and it seems that this is not the case for the RPM system, but Monster Hunters does not address this in any part that I could find.

Magery (Ritual Paths) is really an entirely different advantage from the standard Magery. It costs the same only coincidentally. From MH1 pg 24: "Magery does not add to spell use or Thaumatology; it instead acts as a “cap” for ritual Path skills, which cannot exceed (12+Magery level)."

[Humabout]

Magery 1+ is essentially just Energy Reserve (Magical) 3 [9] + Increased Path Skill Level Cap and Increased Hung Spells Limited [1]. It does not affect the actual level of Thaumatology or Path Skills.

I think it is totally doable to maintain a balance between powers and RPM. Monster Hunters does it. I use RPM in a DF-esque setting/ruleset along side Powers and Divine Favor without any real hickups. FWIW, I would approach powers with the Magical PM as an innate supernatural ability the user can pull off at will cuz he's just that good/practiced/etc. at it. RPM is general magical practice where you can actually work the art of magic, rather than pulling off specific one-shot tricks, no matter how spectacular. YMMV.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

As for one college magery/thematic magical focus, AFAIK, there are no actual rules right now for that, but they say that the RPM book will address this. I don't feel like you can export standard magery limitations to RPM.

PK "leaked" the RPM book rule for that, in a post long ago. I don't remember the details, but it involved using Higher Purpose (flavour of magic), a maximum of 3 levels per character. IIRC you should stack all three if you wanted to, or take 3 differently flavoured ones, or of course do 2+1.

[Pragmatic]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

PK "leaked" the RPM book rule for that, in a post long ago. I don't remember the details, but it involved using Higher Purpose (flavour of magic), a maximum of 3 levels per character. IIRC you should stack all three if you wanted to, or take 3 differently flavoured ones, or of course do 2+1.

Linked up above (post# 3). :-)

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Ffej

Just writing to see if anyone has any valuable experience to draw upon for advice.

I know a thing or two.

Originally Posted by Ffej

I'm working on kind of a urban fantasy / low-powered-supers campaign. Maybe at 300pts but not sure yet. I'm considering incorporating Ritual Path Magic as well as characters with magical 'Powers' My thinking is that the act of casting spells should feel like an Art to Master rather than just a Power to Have. I like RPM because it's flexible but potentially challenging to use effectively, pretty much same reasons I like the GURPS system in general. But not everyone is a magic user, and some people in this world, with certain Unusual Backgrounds, will have abilities that can be called powers as well.

My main question is do I have at all a chance of maintaining balance in a scenario like this?

So, Dresden Files like? One thing I hear all the time from new GMs and old is "How do I balance X against Y?" I've been running games for twenty years and GURPS exclusively for ten, let me share a bit of advice: Don't. Just. Don't. That way lies madness. If you feel you MUST balance one power against another, use Unusual Background. That's what it is there for. I have a urban fantasy/monster hunting campaign that's been going on maybe 9 years now. It has ritual path magic, divine favor, psionic powers, chi powers, and a host of other oddities. Some powers are better than others for some things. Divine Favor works for the big stuff. Psionic Powers allows teleportation, ritual path magic doesn't. I could go on. My game didn't break down and yours won't either. I adjusted a few things the first few sessions (mainly adding Unusual Backgrounds), removed a few powers, etc. But don't try to do that stuff before the game - you'll just drive yourself mad and maybe burn out. Decide what you want, eyeball it, and play.

Originally Posted by Ffej

Also, I really like the idea of spell casters with thematic specializations so I'm considering allowing for Aspected and One College Only Magery. That way you get characters who only get the advantage of their magery if the spell involves something like, say, fire, just for example. Has anyone tried combining limited Magery with the RPM system yet?

The other suggestions in this thread work. You can use the rules from the Basic as is (I personally halve the modifiers which I feel work best). See this thread for more information on modifying Magery (Ritual Path).

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Until the RPM book comes out* (I hear it's comming out soon), the only rules for RPM come from the Monster Hunters books, and the characters in that system would range from 200 to 400 starting points. This means that you can definitely have 300 point characters that are competent with magic. Not masters of magic like the MH Witch, but competent nonetheless. The loss of Ritual Adept (one of the first things to cut IMHO) means that spellcasters are awesome out of combat, but need to have some foresight in combat to prepare the charms they will use. Do not punish casters for their versatility. RPM is very versatile, but the wrong choices will lead to characters feeling useless in time critical situations, even with Ritual Adept. Given enough time, magic can solve most situations, but it isn't often the most practical or efficient way to do so, and skills and defaults can usually do the same.

As for one college magery/thematic magical focus, AFAIK, there are no actual rules right now for that, but they say that the RPM book will address this. I don't feel like you can export standard magery limitations to RPM.

Waiting for PK or Ghostdancer (The RPM Gurus) to come and give extra details...

*I wish the damn thing came out already, it's blocking one of my personal projects, and if you know me, you can puzzle what that means.

Yeah, man, me too.

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

PK suggested the use of Higher Purpose to represent "styles" or "traditions", giving a bonus to all Path skills if the spell matches the character's style. Limiting Adept would give a mage for whom a certain style of magic is "second nature", which fits nicely. Limiting Magery would mean you'd have a different skill cap and dedicated energy pool for certain spells. That could work, but is a little more fiddly.

Yup. This is one way. And a good one. I've got something in the works for Pyramid that will give you actual styles (as in rules to use ritual path magic with Thaumatology: Magical Styles).

Originally Posted by Humabout

I think it is totally doable to maintain a balance between powers and RPM. Monster Hunters does it. I use RPM in a DF-esque setting/ruleset along side Powers and Divine Favor without any real hickups. FWIW, I would approach powers with the Magical PM as an innate supernatural ability the user can pull off at will cuz he's just that good/practiced/etc. at it. RPM is general magical practice where you can actually work the art of magic, rather than pulling off specific one-shot tricks, no matter how spectacular. YMMV.

Same article talks about creating powers within a ritual path magic framework - rules and all. :-)

[Humabout]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

I've got something in the works for Pyramid that will give you actual styles (as in rules to use ritual path magic with Thaumatology: Magical Styles) . . . Same article talks about creating powers within a ritual path magic framework - rules and all. :-)

Who do I have to do to get that published? I've gone over the perks in Thaumatology: Magical Styles and tweaked them to fit RPM for the most part (the ones that add flexibility to rigid spells don't really fit, imo, since RPM is all already about flexible spells). I'd love to see how close I came to the mark!