Clerics resurrection and kneepads?

[topheron]

Hi, I saw Tabletop with Wil Wheaton, and bought Munchkin Deluxe. I'm a complete newbie and I have a question.

I use the Kneepads of Allure to force another player to help me defeat a Plutonium Dragon.

Per the rules in the Combat section, I'm supposed to: "Discard the monster card including any enhancers and one-shot items played, and draw treasure."

Per the rules in the Asking For Help section I'm supposed to: "Discard it (the monster). Draw treasure (see below) and follow any special instructions on the monster card..."

Below just says: "Draw face up, so the whole party can see what you got, if someone helped you."

Note that there is a slight change in the wording between the two sections.

My question is this: After my unwilling helper and I have killed the monster, do we put all the cards used in combat that would be discarded on the various discard piles BEFORE drawing the treasure cards face up?

Because if that's the case, I'm going to discard the cards in the order I choose (it was my combat), place the kneepads on top of the discard pile, and use the resurrection ability of the cleric to get the kneepads back by discarding a card out of my hand.

But I'm wondering if the specific wording in the two sections of the rule book is different because of this possibility. In the section on Asking For Help they make no reference to anything after combat being discarded except the monster, so it could be argued that they are specifying that the monster is discarded, the treasure cards are pulled, and then as the combat phase ends everything left after combat is discarded even though they don't specifically say so in that section of the rules.

That interpretation would mean that the Kneepads aren't on the discard pile while the cleric has the opportunity to resurrect.

Any thoughts?

[bonetm]

You can't use the Kneepads of Allure if you are a Cleric.

Also, note that the Kneepads are NOT a one-shot Item, they don't get discarded after the combat.

I know that doesn't answer your question, but hopefully it will clarify something for you

[Clipper]

I agree with bonetm, the Kneepads of Allure are a persistent Item that you keep with you, just like the ones that give you a bonus. At the end of battle, you only discard Items that say they are Usable Once Only.

As for whether you are resurrecting any other one-shots used in battle... It is highly unlikely that the lack of mention of one-shots in the helping description means it changes the order. Something like that would be more firmly worded. The rules do heavily imply discarding the cards before you take the spoils, as you say, but it is unclear if this is the intent. I'm not sure this is how I've been playing it until now, but my unofficial flowcharts do agree with the order you deducted, so I think I have seen this ruling before somewhere. I'm part-way through a search to see if I can find where I might have seen it.

Edit: Search still isn't finding a ruling for either order. Perhaps I saw the same implied order in the rules earlier and had simply let that issue slip my mind...

[topheron]

Thanks guys.

I missed the 'Not usable by clerics' at the top of the Kneepads of Allure card, and presumed that it was a one shot.

Newbie mistakes!

In this sequence of events:

Cleric asks for help.
Monster is defeated.

I'm thinking that the correct next step is:

Cards are put on discard piles in the order that the Cleric player whose turn it is wants them put on the discard piles.

Cleric can then choose to resurrect from the treasure discards as many cards as he has treasures to claim and cards to discard from his hand to do so.

This means that he can reclaim one-shot cards used in this combat by paying for them with discards from his hand.

Without the kneepads this doesn't happen every combat, so it doesn't seem unbalanced.

Thanks again for pointing out my newbie mistakes!

[topheron]

Oh, and btw, Clipper, your flowcharts are awesome.

VERY helpful!

Thank you for the hard work you put into them.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by topheron

Thanks guys.

I missed the 'Not usable by clerics' at the top of the Kneepads of Allure card, and presumed that it was a one shot.

Newbie mistakes!

In this sequence of events:

Cleric asks for help.
Monster is defeated.

I'm thinking that the correct next step is:

Cards are put on discard piles in the order that the Cleric player whose turn it is wants them put on the discard piles.

Cleric can then choose to resurrect from the treasure discards as many cards as he has treasures to claim and cards to discard from his hand to do so.

This means that he can reclaim one-shot cards used in this combat by paying for them with discards from his hand.

Without the kneepads this doesn't happen every combat, so it doesn't seem unbalanced.

Thanks again for pointing out my newbie mistakes!

This seems reasonable, from an official point of view.