Troll throwing a stone?

[Cernunnos]

Hi all,

Is the following calculation correct?
A troll (ST 24) can lift a 922lb heavy rock above his head with his two arms (B.353). He can manage to throw the rock 2 yards (table on B.355). If the rock hits a human it does (only!) 2d-2 of crushing damage (table on B.16; table on B.355). Is it correct?

If the troll been smart enough, not to take the largest block he could find, he could have done more(!) damage. A 115lb (BLx1) stone could do 2d+3 cr in damage AND hit targets 14y away. Can this be correct?

Let’s say that the human got the first massive stone on top of him. A 922lb stone has approximately 80HP (B.558) and since it can be thrown 2 yards I assume it travels with a speed of 2y/s. This gives (160x2)/100=3.2= 3d of crushing damage (B.431; I have calculated the stone’s HP as double, since it counts as a hard object). Is this correct?

The average damage is 2d-2 (5) + 3d (11) = 16 cr damage. The lowest damage is 1+3=4 cu and the maximum damage is 10+18=28 cu.
Given that a normal human has 10HP he has a good chance to survive this. I always imagined that getting a half ton of stones hurled at you, and landing on your chest, would turn you into pulp. Have I done the math correctly, or did I miss something?

Best regards/C.

[Ulzgoroth]

I can't check your math AFB, but be aware that the damage from the thrown rock is the impact damage based on the troll throwing it. Not the damage of being crushed under it or the damage from it falling down from above the troll's head onto the target.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I can't check your math AFB, but be aware that the damage from the thrown rock is the impact damage based on the troll throwing it. Not the damage of being crushed under it or the damage from it falling down from above the troll's head onto the target.

Also, ST 24 is a fairly weak troll. GURPS Characters implies strongly that humans can be ST 20, and does not say clearly (IIRC) that they can't be even stronger than that.

The OP also needs to note that just a few points of ST makes a large difference. ST 14 is, IIRC, twice as strong as ST 10. ST 17 is about three times as strong as ST 10. ST 20 is four times as strong as ST 10.

A good and really scary troll might be ST 30 or 35.

How strong does GURPS suggest that vampires be? That may be a good ballpark for human-sized-but-incredly-strong. Then take that, increase ST by a few more points (just a few), and increase Size Modifier to +1.

[thulben]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Also, ST 24 is a fairly weak troll.

On what basis do you make that assertion? From all of the real trolls that you've observed?

[Mateus]

Originally Posted by thulben

On what basis do you make that assertion? From all of the real trolls that you've observed?

The Troll form Fantasy has +10 ST giving him a base ST of 20. In Banestrom they have +8 ST and a base ST score of 18. I cant find a DF one (only the small things with ST-1).

EDIT: The Troll on DF Monsters 1 has ST 20.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by Cernunnos

The average damage is 2d-2 (5) + 3d (11) = 16 cr damage. The lowest damage is 1+3=4 cu and the maximum damage is 10+18=28 cu.
Given that a normal human has 10HP he has a good chance to survive this. I always imagined that getting a half ton of stones hurled at you, and landing on your chest, would turn you into pulp. Have I done the math correctly, or did I miss something?

Best regards/C.

Think more like a car barely bumping into someone as it stops (if you can 'throw' something two yards, you are basically giving it a little bit of forward velocity while it falls). It also isn't going to land on top of someone, but hit them in the front (use the falling damage rules for lifting a huge weight and dropping it). Humans don't use thrown weapons as heavy as they can lift, so why would trolls?

If you want monsters 3-4m tall to use gigantic clubs and boulders, you could give them a Perk that lets them use large weapons just as if they were small ones (so a large boulder has the same range and damage as a 100 lb one, and a 50 lb club has the same range and damage as a SM+2 Maul).

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Cernunnos

I always imagined that getting a half ton of stones hurled at you, and landing on your chest, would turn you into pulp. Have I done the math correctly, or did I miss something?

The stone isn't landing on anyone, it's bumping up against someone as it falls on the ground.

If you need something heavy to land on someone, after it bumps/hits them, then that's an additional event.


On a side note, throwing something lighter so that you can get your full ST into it, is always better than throwing something so heavy you can barely toss it, GURPS doesn't get into over analyzing this, but a heavy thing would also be traveling so much slower that it would be much easier to dodge/avoid, than something lighter coming real fast.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Cernunnos

If the troll been smart enough, not to take the largest block he could find, he could have done more(!) damage. A 115lb (BLx1) stone could do 2d+3 cr in damage AND hit targets 14y away. Can this be correct?

Yes. The throwing rules are crocked (throw distance shouldn't vary with ST, it should only depend on weight vs BL, plus additional special factors such as SM), but you'll generally get more effect by throwing something you can comfortably lift than something you can barely list.

[Alden Loveshade]

Originally Posted by thulben

On what basis do you make that assertion? From all of the real trolls that you've observed?

One of my best friends is a troll and I could beat him up. As long as he wasn't holding a big rock.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

If you need something heavy to land on someone, after it bumps/hits them, then that's an additional event.

This additional event tends to happen for "free" for significantly large objects, but GURPS doesn't really have rules for where the breakpoint is between bouncing off of you vs embedding in your torso (ie making a hole in you) vs hitting you and landing on top of you (ie making you go splat).

Making a hole in you is a function of speed vs cross-sectional area and I'm quite sure the guns folks can assist with that.

Bouncing off vs landing on you is one of those situations where questions of knockback, area attacks, and so forth are useful. But there's no firm rule where that breakpoint is.

Just for reference, your sphere's about a foot in radius, 2 feet in diameter. It's the size of a big medicine ball. Which is pretty damn big for a rock, but not what I'd normally call a "boulder".

Regardless, it's ~80HP for that boulder, and hard (so use 2x HP) falling from 2 yards-ish, so an est velocity of 7-ish, and it theoretically deals (160 * 7)/100 = 11d damage. If you call it more like a 1 yard fall than a 2 yard fall (velocity 5 not 7) that's ~8d damage instead.