Super Speedster: Throwing

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, that's a fair point. On the other hand, when you consider the speed and range of a musket ball, it's going to take a lot of levels of Super Throw to reach the same level.

Bill Stoddard

Well, black powder pistols are often around 1d+1 pi+ or so and few respectable supers with Throwing Art and Super Throw are going to be doing so little damage.

And since the RAW* models sling bullets as high damage pi attacks, it would seem odd if thrown marbles were not treated the same.

When dealing with characters that can throw stuff at high speeds, some kind of rule allowing them to choose projectiles that do pi-, pi, pi+, pi++ or cr would probably be needed. Given that thrown objects not specifically designed for the task are probably poor penetrators, I think that the lighter stuff would often be AD(0.5), which goes some way toward balancing things.

*In my opinion, very illogically and unrealistically.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by whswhs

If you can run at 4x human movement speed, then you can presumably whirl your arms at 4x human movement speed too, and if you're holding something and release it, off it goes to 16x the distance. Attaining that speed would seemingly take tremendous muscular force, but the comics are full of characters who can run at tens or hundreds of times human speed but don't have super strength at all. The same applies here. When the Flash whirls his arms and creates a wind that can lift a small car, he ought to have enough strength to pick up the small car, but he doesn't.

That makes the issue clear, thanks. But then, is super-throwing an Advantage, or crunch that describes a side effect of existing speed-powers?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

That makes the issue clear, thanks. But then, is super-throwing an Advantage, or crunch that describes a side effect of existing speed-powers?

Advantage: Super Throw [10/level]
GURPS Supers, page 30, Lower Middle of Page, Left Column.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

That makes the issue clear, thanks. But then, is super-throwing an Advantage, or crunch that describes a side effect of existing speed-powers?

It's an advantage, because there is no previously existing speed-related ability that grants the effect. It may also be crunch that describes a side effect of speed powers. Those two are not incompatible.

Bill Stoddard

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by redpikemen

I see - thank you! I was reading Super Throw wrong.

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test any of the math - I was just imagining the player complaint of "You're telling me that if I'm moving at Mach 2 and I throw this baseball, it does this little damage?"

If that's the case, it looks like Super Throw can get mean pretty fast.

If it's a matter of relative velocity (I was running at X when I threw it, it should be going faster....) rather than "being able to whirl my arms faster", you should apply an Accessibility Limitation to Super Throw, i.e. "Only when Running at Super Speeds -20%"

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by whswhs

If you can run at 4x human movement speed, then you can presumably whirl your arms at 4x human movement speed too, and if you're holding something and release it, off it goes to 16x the distance. Attaining that speed would seemingly take tremendous muscular force, but the comics are full of characters who can run at tens or hundreds of times human speed but don't have super strength at all. The same applies here. When the Flash whirls his arms and creates a wind that can lift a small car, he ought to have enough strength to pick up the small car, but he doesn't.

Bill Stoddard

Hmmm.... now it occurs to me, shouldn't each level in Enhanced Move (Ground) actually give you 4 times rather than 2 times the jumping distance with a running start, then? I mean, I know it doesn't by RAW, but that would be more logical... it would make sense to buy a level of Super Jump (possibly limited only to running broad jumps) with each level of Enhanced Move to get this effect.

[Ejidoth]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

Hmmm.... now it occurs to me, shouldn't each level in Enhanced Move (Ground) actually give you 4 times rather than 2 times the jumping distance with a running start, then? I mean, I know it doesn't by RAW, but that would be more logical... it would make sense to buy a level of Super Jump (possibly limited only to running broad jumps) with each level of Enhanced Move to get this effect.

It's worse than that. :P

Using enhanced move at double movement to zoom up and off a ramp should get you air time as if you'd jumped with that full movement ability (quadruple distance? probably depends on the ramp angle, though.), but running on a flat plane with enhanced move and then making a normal jump won't put you any higher in the air than a normal jump while running without enhanced move, so the rise and fall time will be the same, so double distance since your forward momentum is double that of normal.

To build someone who can just plain move his legs that fast, though, yeah... you need lots of Striking ST (for kicks and stomps), Enhanced Move (for running), and Super Jump (for jumping). You probably don't need Lifting ST, as super speed is not exactly portrayed as the kind of slow, steady, strong movement that Lifting ST represents. If your arms also move that fast, you need Super Throwing to handle the throwing distances. If your reflexes are also really good, you'll want to trade some levels of Enhanced Move for Altered Time Rate, make sure to take Combat Reflexes, or even take Enhanced Time Sense if you're really fast. If your GM is running a more realistic game and your character is REALLY FAST you'll also want some DR or regeneration and some sort of immunity or resistance to inertial effects, else you'll tend to catch fire when you run, rip gaping holes through your body if you run through the rain, and blow apart into pieces when you turn a corner.

You may also want to consider Clinging or something so you can run down stairs at faster than falling speed (remember, to go down stairs even as a speedster, you're really just walking forward - gravity has to pull you down, and it does that at its own pace) and, at higher speeds, so you don't accidentally use the curvature of the earth as a ramp and fly off into space. :P

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Ejidoth

It's worse than that. :P

Using enhanced move at double movement to zoom up and off a ramp should get you air time as if you'd jumped with that full movement ability (quadruple distance? probably depends on the ramp angle, though.), but running on a flat plane with enhanced move and then making a normal jump won't put you any higher in the air than a normal jump while running without enhanced move, so the rise and fall time will be the same, so double distance since your forward momentum is double that of normal.

To build someone who can just plain move his legs that fast, though, yeah... you need lots of Striking ST (for kicks and stomps), Enhanced Move (for running), and Super Jump (for jumping). You probably don't need Lifting ST, as super speed is not exactly portrayed as the kind of slow, steady, strong movement that Lifting ST represents.

Ah... good point on the flatter trajectory if it's just from a running start and momentum, as opposed to greater acceleration upwards as well. The ideal ramp angle would of course be 45 degrees.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by whswhs

It's an advantage, because there is no previously existing speed-related ability that grants the effect. It may also be crunch that describes a side effect of speed powers. Those two are not incompatible.

It seems to me that the Advantage should be superfluous for characters who have already bought the ability to move so rapidly.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by aesir23

If it's a matter of relative velocity (I was running at X when I threw it, it should be going faster....) rather than "being able to whirl my arms faster", you should apply an Accessibility Limitation to Super Throw, i.e. "Only when Running at Super Speeds -20%"

Why would you need Super Throw at all, if you have the ability to accelerate the projectile up to that speed already?