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09-17-2007, 10:09 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
I'm playing a character who has one level of Extra Attack. Because she often goes up against foes with ranged weapons, she's taken to throwing things at them: For preference, small steel balls at the weight that gives her max damage.
But once she throws one, she's disarmed, and needs to take out another. The GM has been letting her use one of her two attacks for a Ready maneuver, so she can throw as one action, draw a weapon as the next action, and repeat in the next turn. In effect, this gives her the equivalent of Fast-Draw (Rock) as a free side effect of Extra Attack. And it means that if she eventually actually learns Fast-Draw (Rock) she'll be able to throw two missiles in every turn, or at least every turn where she makes her Fast-Draw roll. Is this legal as a use of Extra Attack? If not, is the benefit of Extra Attack essentially negated whenever she throws things, holding her down to one throw every other turn? Or is there some intermediate solution that gives her some payoff for taking Extra Attack? Bill Stoddard |
09-17-2007, 10:19 AM | #2 |
Dog of Lysdexics
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne FL, Formerly Wellington NZ
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
No, it is not a legal use of Extra attack, Extra attack only give you an attack on attack manuvers (Attack, Move and attack, and All out Attack), and does nothing on other manuvers; and Ready is a separate manuver
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09-17-2007, 10:29 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Nashville, TN
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
Kromm has opined on this one in the past. In short, not the same thing -- as Rogue says.
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09-17-2007, 01:18 PM | #4 |
Forum Pervert
(If you have to ask . . .) Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
Specifically, there is no reason you couldn't use your normal action to ready the orb and then your extra attack to throw it.
But, as Rogue has said (and Kromm), Extra Attack is just an extra attack maneuver, not an extra action for the round. |
09-17-2007, 01:21 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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09-17-2007, 01:25 PM | #6 | |
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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09-17-2007, 06:24 PM | #7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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It seems to me it works kind of poorly for thrown weapons. Say I take Extra Attack for 25 points. Now I ready a rock, which takes one turn, and I throw it, which takes one attack of the next turn—and I can't throw another rock, not even with the other hand, because I can only ready one rock? In effect, that makes Extra Attack worthless if I apply it to throwing things. Or I can take turn one to ready a rock in my right hand, turn two to ready one in my left hand, and turn three to throw both? That's gone from two rocks thrown in four turns to two rocks thrown in three turns. I used to be able to throw three rocks in six turns; now I can throw four. That's only one-third of an extra attack. Or I buy Extra Attack and Extra Ready. Now I actually have doubled my rate of fire—but for 50 points, not 25. The point cost seems excessive for throwing things. Conversely, say that I take Extra Attack and Extra Ready, and my main weapons are a rapier and main-gauche. I've spent 50 points to be able to arm myself fully in one turn and strike with both the next turn. But the extra ready isn't worth nearly as much, I don't think; I'll strike every turn in melee, but I won't draw weapons nearly as often as that, unless I'm a total klutz. In either case, it seems that at a minimum Extra Ready ought to cost significantly less than Extra Attack, if it's allowed at all. As a side question, what about Extra Parry? If I can have an advantage that lets me attack with weapon A and with weapon B, can I have an advantage that lets me parry with both? That one might actually be WORTH 25 points! Bill Stoddard |
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09-17-2007, 06:58 PM | #8 | ||
Fightin' Round the World
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Jersey
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Maybe you're thinking of something different than I am. You already are talking a two-weapon fighter with two fencing weapons, so you've got two "counts" down from -0 parry to defend yourself. With TBAM and Combat Reflexes and a good skill you should be able to defend with near-maximum skill as many times as you can reasonably be attacked. I run a game with a TBAM fencer with Combat Reflexes and Enhanced Parry 1. I've seen her attacked successfully 7 times in a turn and only "sweat" that last parry at a mere 12-13 or so.
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09-17-2007, 08:17 PM | #9 | |
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Rapid Strike with thrown weapons doesn't fit the image of what she's doing. Those aren't tiny little ball bearings; they're 9-lb. steel balls, which comes to about the size of a softball, I think—they have to be that big to get the maximum throwing damage. And La Gata's a 93-pound teenage girl. No way she's grabbing a handful of steel balls for a Rapid Strike or Rapid Fire. Her abilities don't come from martial arts training, but from an alien virus. She's just started her first course in karate. She can't possibly acquire either Trained by a Master or Weapon Master in the expected duration of the campaign. And I'm not sure I want her to, anyway; it's a drastic change of character theme. Really, I'm just trying to build a speedster whose basic idiom is obscenely high DX and superb reflexes rather than incredibly fast movement (she can sprint 48 mph, but that's not even freeway speed). I'd be willing to ask the GM to retrofit Extra Ready—she could duplicate her established style by readying with her left hand while she throws with her right and vice versa—but it really doesn't seem to me that Extra Ready ought to cost 25 points per level, for reasons stated in a previous post. Bill Stoddard |
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09-17-2007, 07:06 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Rules puzzle: Extra Attack and readying
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Spending 25 (or 30 since I would argue that Multi-Strike is required to reuse the same hand), is a lot like spending 24 points for a +6 to skill. High skill gives you greater flexibility with that weapon while Extra Attack gives you the option to mix and match your various striking options. Bottom line, I don't think it's unbalanced to allow a double throw if they can make Fast Draws to eliminate the readies. It's already allowed for rapid fire throwing. |
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