Cheating with a legal item

[Andrew Hackard]

It's also worth noting that the new wording on Cheat! does not technically require the Item to be unusable. That was the intent, but it wasn't what we said, and so I think the ruling now has to be that any permanent Item can be Cheated, even if it's already usable.

[HK416]

@ MunchkinMan

I think you resolved a huge fight me and my friends had yesterday.

I had cheated on me a Bazooka with +5 bonus, and 2 hand big item. Right after iv done that, someone used a trap on me "loose your gun". The bazooka had the mark gun on.

Me: "it dosent count, i have cheat"
rest of the group "it is a gun, it says right there".
me " it dosent count, I HAVE CHEAT"
rest of the group "you dindt specefy that it was on the 'gun' part you cheated, because you had already used both your hands"..

and i gave up, cause ppl really started to be mad. i am GM of the group, but was voted down. sidenote, how can i over power ppl without they getting REALLY REALLY mad at me? :)

Anyway, my question really is. If you use cheat, its coutns as a "blank" item (still an item tho?) with no value?

[Solelron]

He cheated a 2 handed big item in. He didn't cheat a gun in. The Bazooka would blow up the same way :)

[HK416]

Originally Posted by Solelron

He cheated a 2 handed big item in. He didn't cheat a gun in. The Bazooka would blow up the same way :)

What does taht mean?
If its for my post. For the record, i never specefied what i cheated. But i didnt have any free hands, so the other players asumed that it was for the 2 hands. But as i understood munchkinman, it doesent matter, it cheats evrything..

[Solelron]

It does cheat everything, however that doesn't stop it from being a gun. If you a have a curse: lose a gun, you still lose a gun, even if it was cheated in. (just like if you have a curse: lose head/footgear and you are cheating in something for it.

[MunchkinMan]

Well, I'm not sure how you are perceiving it that I resolved your argument in your favor. Nothing that I said says that the Item is changed from what it is, just that you are ignoring certain restrictions to be able to use it when you use Cheat!. It's still Big, it's still a Gun, it's still an Item that requires the use of Hands, it's still an Item, so a card that would force you to lose a Big Item, a Gun, an Item that requires a Hand or two to use, or simply an Item would take away your Cheat!-ed Bazooka under the appropriate circumstances.

Also, there are no restrictions on who can use a Gun, so it would not even be possible to use Cheat! to lift a Gun restriction, since that's not something you can "cheat" for.

For more information on the Cheat! card, please read this post in the sticky thread entitled "Critical Links & Useful Information -- READ ME FIRST!!!" (all of which is a great read).

[Andrew Hackard]

The Cheat! card does not change any fundamental characteristics of the cheated Item -- it just means you can use it, even if other circumstances would normally prevent it.

Your cheated Bazooka is still a Gun, and your argument that it wasn't was incorrect.

[Kirt]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

Well, I'm not sure how you are perceiving it that I resolved your argument in your favor.

My guess is that HK416 is referring to when you said:

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

The game is not so pedantic as to require you to remember why you were using Cheat! on an Item. It stays on the Item until you no longer own it.

HK is interpreting to this to mean that it doesn't matter why his item was cheated in (2-Handed), (Big), etc. ALL its attributes are now cheated and don't count to any restrictions, which is correct and which is what your post explained.

His mistake, as you and Andrew and others have pointed out, is assuming that not counting for restrictions means that the item is somehow attribute-less (in his words, "blank") and may not be targeted by curses that target attributes.

He furthermore says

Originally Posted by HK416

my question really is. If you use cheat, its coutns as a "blank" item (still an item tho?) with no value?

and no one has addressed the "no value" part of this directly.

No, cheating does not "blank" out item attributes - the item still HAS all of these attributes, it is just that they don't count for any restrictions. In particular, the item still has its printed value, and may be sold for this value.

[HK416]

Well this answers my question, exept the value part. But i guess its still woth the gold stated on the card, even if the income tax arrives.
Thanks.

[MunchkinMan]

The value is an attribute of the Item, so yes, I actually did answer the value question, even if I didn't express it directly.