[Magic-as-Powers] Power Stunts as Spells

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Having a thought that fits this thread: The Stunts Only limitation on Energy Reserve is -10%. I wonder, though, if that limitation should have the same cost when applied to something else, like Magery (possibly some branch of Limited Magery). So, it negates some penalties for spellcasting in this system, but does not enhance the magical skills for other purposes

The other purposes seem pretty secondary.

The power-casting leveled perk is basically one-spell magery (-80% = 2 per level) at half-cost, so the collective value of stuff other than magery and effect (for spells influenced by it, many aren't) should be at least 50%.

What stuff are we talking about here other than the skill roll anyway, aside from the time it takes to study to gain character points to spend on that spell?

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Plane

The other purposes seem pretty secondary.

The power-casting leveled perk is basically one-spell magery (-80% = 2 per level) at half-cost, so the collective value of stuff other than magery and effect (for spells influenced by it, many aren't) should be at least 50%.

What stuff are we talking about here other than the skill roll anyway, aside from the time it takes to study to gain character points to spend on that spell?

Identification and analysis of spells and magic items, certainly. There might be others, but I'm blanking on them if so.

[Prince Charon]

James Tennyson, Disreputable Occult Investigator, 1972

Age: 35

Attributes

ST 10 [0]; DX 10 [0]; IQ 12 [40]; HT 11 [10]

Secondary Characteristics

HP 10; Will 13 [5]; Per 13 [5]; FP 11; ER (Magical; Stunts Only, -10%) 4 [11]

Social Background

Languages: English (Native) [0]; Latin (Native) [6]; Ancient Atlantean (Broken/Accented) [3].

TL: 7^

Cultural Familiarity: 20th Century CE Western [0]; Ancient Atlantean [1].

Subtotal: 81


Advantages

Contact (Business/Paranormal: Mrs. Harris, mystic shop owner; Skill 15; 15 or less; Completely Reliable) [27]
Contact (Police: Detective Bradley; Skill 12; 12 or less; Somewhat Reliable) [2]
Fearlessness 1 [2]
Gizmos (Magic, -10%) 3 [14]
Magery (Stunts Only, -10%; Subtle Magic Only, -20%) 3 [21]
Spirit Empathy (Magic, -10%) [9]
Street Occultist Talent 2 [10]

Serendipity (Wishing, +100%; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%; Preparation Required, 1 minute, -20%) 1 [25]
^Serendipity (Alternate Ability of Serendipity; Emergencies Only, -30%; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%) 1 [2]
^Obscure (Vision; AA of Serendipity; Defensive, +50%; Stealthy, +100%; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%; Anti-Targeting, -20%) 5 [4]
^Psychometry (AA of Serendipity; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%; Preparation Required, 1 minute, -20%) [3]
^Spirit Sight (AA of Serendipity; Medium; Visual, +50%; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%; Preparation Required, 1 minute, -20%) [2]
^Visualization (AA of Serendipity; Blessing, +100%; Magic, -10%; Pact: Ritualism, -5%) [4]

Perks

Ignition. [1]
Gun Permit. [1]
Membership (Disreputable Urban Occultists Union). [1]
Occult library. [1]
P.I. License. [1]

Subtotal: 130


Disadvantages

Code of Honor (P.I.'s) [-5]
Curious (12) [-5]
Enemy (Watcher, Vance Williams; built on 50% of points; 12 or less) [-3]
Nightmares [-5]
Reputation (Spooky and dangerous to know; local cops and some civilians (large group); 10 or less) -2 [-3]
Ritualism [-5]
Sense of Duty (Clients) [-5]
Stubbornness [-5]

Quirks

Habitually subtle with his magic. [-1]
Likes cats. [-1]
Male gaze. [-1]
Often forgets to shave. [-1]
Particular about his whiskey. [-1]

Subtotal: -41


Features

Fortune-Telling (Decanic Astrology) is a complementary skill of Herb Lore and Occultism. [0]

Skills

Acting [IQ/A] [2] 12
Area Knowledge (Cleveland) [IQ/E] [2] 13
Artist (Calligraphy) [IQ/H] [4] 12
Brawling [DX/E] [2] 11
Current Affairs (Paranormal)/TL7^ [IQ/E] [2] 12
Demon Lore [IQ/A] [1] 13*
Detect Lies [Per/H] [4] 13
Driving (Automobile) [DX/A] [4] 11
Faerie Lore [IQ/A] [1] 13*
Fast-Draw (Ammo) [DX/E] [2] 11
Fast-Draw (Pistol) [DX/E] [1] 10
Fast-Talk [IQ/A] [2] 12
First Aid/TL7^ [IQ/E] [1] 12
Fortune-Telling (Decanic Astrology) [IQ/A] [2] 12
Guns (Pistol)/TL7^ [DX/E] [2] 11
Herb Lore/TL7^ [IQ/VH] [4] 13*
History (Esoteric) [IQ/H] [1] 12*
Hypnotism [IQ/H] [4] 12
Interrogation [IQ/A] [2] 12
Knife [DX/E] [1] 10
Literature (Ancient Atlantean) [IQ/H] [1] 12*
Meditation [Will/H] [2] 12
Observation [Per/A] [2] 13
Occultism [IQ/A] [8] 16*
Photography/TL7^ [IQ/A] [2] 12
Research/TL7^ [IQ/A] [4] 13
Running [HT/A] [4] 12
Savoir-Faire (Spirits) [IQ/E] [1] 12
Shadowing [IQ/A] [4] 13
Spirit Lore [IQ/A] [2] 14*
Streetwise [IQ/A] [2] 12
Urban Survival [Per/A] [1] 12
Writing [IQ/A] [1] 11

*Includes +2 from Street Occultist Talent.

Techniques

Exorcism (H) Occultism-5 [2] 12

Subtotal: 80

Total: 250


Equipment

Clothes
Rubber-soled shoes
Rumpled tan trenchcoat
Grey fedora
Minicamera
3x unused rolls of film
Notepad & pencil
Pouch of mystical ingredients and tools
Shoulder holster
-Colt Detective Special, blued, with hard rubber grips
-2x speed-loaders, .38 Special
Wallet, keys, et cetra
Ten-year-old car (1962 Ford Fairlane)

[Prince Charon]

Notes

James Tennyson was built partly using the Detective template from GURPS Horror p37. Conceptually, I'm imagining him as the main character of a fairly low-budget 'occult detective' show set in 1970s Cleveland; lots of the mortal or reasonably-physical bad guys have things fall on them, or get underfoot, or they're chased by dogs or hit by trucks, et cetra. While James is generally not hired by the police directly, sometimes they send clients his way, usually via Detective Bradley. (Yes, he's somewhat inspired by Harry Dresden, but also by various other John Constantine analogues.)

James is designed for a Horror/Urban Fantasy sort of setting, and one where the PCs mainly or exclusively use a 'Magic As Powers (power stunts as spells)' magic system. The core advantage for his power stunts will mostly be Serendipity; the Alternate Abilities branching off from it were spells that he used often enough that they became a part of him. His skill for casting spells will nearly always be Occultism, and this is also the skill used to perform the rituals represented by his Preparation Required limitations; his Ritualism disadvantage requires both occult rituals and the use of Herb Lore. Charms and other single-use magic items tend to be represented mechanically by power stunts with Gadget limitations, and often Preparation Required ('preparation' in this context being 'making the charm'). Most of his charms are also made with Artist (Calligraphy). My default assumption for the setting is that magic is Affected by Thresholds (Safe as Houses, Pyramid #3-58, pp4-10), and that some version of the Skeptic perk (GURPS Psionic Powers p24) affects magic, and is very common. The usual ways to dodge it are to not use magic around crowds (or in populated areas at all), or to use magic in ways that are not obviously magic.

Most of his Gizmos should be either herbal concoctions, useful mundane items, or unusual ammo in .38 Special (silver bullets are just the tip of the iceberg), but he could also pull out a magic charm that the GM agrees he could have previously bought from Mrs. Harris, or made with a power stunt. Some of the special bullets may also be charms; his tool-pouch includes a hard brass stylus for marking them.

Ignition functions exactly like the psi perk of the same name (GURPS Psionic Powers p56 text box), save that here it's based on magic rather than psychokinesis. The 'Disreputable Urban Occultists Union' has no official name, and little in the form of resources, but such magicians do know each other and trade favors enough to be worth a perk. 'Occult library' is a sort of equipment perk - you have a fairly extensive library of occult books for your wealth level; thus, if it's plausible that you could have a particular occult book, you do have it (and if you having that book would break the current plot, then the GM has probably made it implausible for you to already possess an intact copy of it, though you may get clues as to where to look). James only has Average Wealth, so the more expensive and rare books are mostly beyond his means.

Street Occultist is a stripped down and slightly modified (Herb Lore replaces Alchemy) version of the Occultist Talent, appropriate for an urban magician who doesn't have the professionalism or access to the resources of a high-class academic (and is more likely to be self-trained, or learned via a somewhat traditional apprenticeship). Skills covered include Herb Lore, Hidden Lore, History, Literature, Occultism, and Research. The reaction bonus and alternative benefit are the same as Occultist Talent, and the alternative cost is 6 points/level.

As suggested elsewhere, Exorcism is a technique, in this case based on Occultism rather than the suggested skills in that post.

The 'Anti-Targeting' limitation on Obscure is from GURPS Psionic Powers p16. This does not help with wild swings that could hit him by accident, shrapnel from explosions, or similar untargeted attacks; it just penalizes intentional attacks on James when he's got this effect up. People miss more when they try.

Detective Linda Bradley is Tennyson's ex-girlfriend, though they're on fairly friendly terms. She's a skilled and paranormally-aware but mostly-mundane police detective - only 'mostly' mundane, because she's a low-level Weirdness Magnet (weird stuff, other than James, appears on a 6 or less) with Danger Sense, Luck, and Serendipity. She's a better shot than Tennyson if he isn't using his powers to 'cheat.' Her catchphrase is 'I have a bad feeling about this.'

Mrs. Harris appears to be a little old lady who runs (and lives in an apartment above) what seems to be a common sort of new age hobby shop, but many of the books and charms and herbs and such do have real power, and she knows it well. The shop and the area around it are well-protected by various magical effects, and by a spirit that is said to be the ghost of Mr. Harris. Inquiries as to Mrs. Harris's age will not receive a clear answer, but according to those who live in the area, she's just 'always been there,' and has always been a grey-haired but spry older woman. The general theme of the shop changes with the times, but has always had a variety of magical ingredients and such. Quite often, she has what you really need (which isn't always what you think you need) close at hand, or can tell you who to get it from. There are those who suggest that Mrs. Harris may be a manifestation of the spirit of the city, or that the 'ghost of Mr. Harris' might be; Tennyson's opinion is that if either or both were true, you wouldn't be able to tell unless the spirit wanted you to.

Vance Williams is a reporter for a local tabloid newspaper of the sort that the National Enquirer looks down on for the implausibility of their work, who noticed weird stuff around James, and got curious. So far, very few seriously believe his articles.

James's most common spells are gaining extra uses of Serendipity (often with Preparation Required reduced or removed from the Wishing version, or some form of Aspected added to the Emergencies Only version), and adding levels of Reduced Time to Visualization (sometimes balanced with Aspected or other limitations). A few slightly-less-common spells include various forms of Detect, Oracle, See Invisible, & other illusion-countering or information-gathering advantages; Chameleon, Obscure, and/or Silence; Hex Machine (Affliction 1 or 2 with Machines Only, -20%); other Hexes (generally some form of distracting health-related Affliction); the 'Evil Eye' (Visualization with Cursing Only, +0%, Vision-based (user's Vision), sometimes other limitations, and often levels of Reduced Time); and summoning various types of animal or spirit Allies (the latter being useful in dealing with less friendly spirits, among other things). For healing, he tends to rely on a mix of herbal concoctions, Visualization, and modern (TL7^) medicine, although in emergencies he may also use a spell to get Hard to Kill or Affliction: Hard to Kill.

Though he knows in theory how to perform more obviously-magical effects, he rarely does so, beyond a basic candle-lighting spell (the Ignition perk, which looks to most observers like a conjuring trick, not magic); this practice has lead to the 'Subtle Only' limitation on his Magery Talent (a common limitation among mages who frequently practice in cities and large towns). On the few occasions that he does see the need to directly do something that obvious, it's likely to be a Manifested spirit (or asking the aid of a spirit that is itself capable of manifesting), an Illusion, or some specialization of Control or Affliction. He's unlikely to ever use Innate Attack, unless he can't use his gun for some reason.


Thoughts?

[Prince Charon]

A quick thought on one of the possible systems/worked examples for this sort of magic, that I'm going to try to get written quickly and expand later if I get more ideas, or get inspired by someone's suggestions.

First, the core power: 'Oracle (Magic, -10%) [14]' or 'Oracle (Inspired, +100%; Magic, -10%) [29].' The latter is probably more fitting as well as more powerful (you could also do something like this with Intuition or Inspired Intuition, but Oracle feels more conceptually-appropriate for this). As with Psi and other power stunt-related systems, you can use Extra Effort to get more uses per day, as well as adding enhancements or stunting up other advantages. It takes little fluff to justify stunting a number of other information-gathering advantages, of course - you read the omens in that specific way; also can be used to justify Gizmos ('I read the omens and realized that I'd need my scuba gear today'). Temporary Contacts, Allies, or even Patrons (if the GM wants to go there) are a bit more of a stretch, but aren't impossible: you read the omens and saw a way to get some help (maybe not for free, but perhaps for later favors that are acceptable to you) - the difference between this and Search rolls and such is that you don't waste time, and don't need to spend as long negotiating (yes, these are basically hirelings, but represented as power-stunted advantages).

Another interesting stretch for this is getting equipment or Gadget advantages, by reading the omens and knowing where to look for something useful that you can easily borrow or otherwise temporarily use without getting in trouble for it (or not much trouble). Stretching it further, you might use several activations of Oracle to find magically-significant components, and to help you understand (with an appropriate skill, see below) how to assemble them into a magic item of your own (probably a temporary one, but if the +150% or +300% Permanent enhancement is within your power, that is also acceptable).

Stretching the idea in a slightly different direction (one which a lot of GMs would not allow, but which is acceptable to me for this idea), your great understanding of the omens allows you to 'make your own,' to convince or fool the spirits (or the gods, the world, Fate & Destiny, whichever) to alter the future in a way that you choose. This will usually be stunting for some variant of Visualization, or something like Serendipity with Wishing, Aspected, Preparation Required, and maybe a few others. However, if you already live in a world where strange magical encounters happen often enough to build a game around them, you can justify an enemy being attacked by a hostile effect or being (Innate Attack, Affliction, a combat-capable Ally, et cetra), or you or a friend aided by a beneficial one (advantage afflictions, Allies with some sort of healing abilities, et cetra), as 'shaping fate in that direction' (yes, this could be used to justify Oracle as the core advantage of a Path/Book Magic style, but that's a different thread). I would tend to assume that with this fluff, the more blatantly weird/magical the effect, the greater the skill penalty in addition to the penalty from the point-cost.

A number of possible core skills could go with this: Occultism and Fortune-Telling are both appropriate for Oracle, but might be too easy for some GMs. Ritual Magic is an obvious choice, but a good one, while Thaumatology is less thematically-appropriate, IMHO. Symbol Drawing is an option, but depends on the overall setting, being more fitting for some than others. Autohypnosis and Meditation seem to me like they'd fit Intuition better, but they nonetheless could work. Alchemy and Herb Lore look odd for this on the surface, but would work well with the 'Gadget-builder' option, and fit with some fiction where people using what appear to be those skills also need to 'check the signs' or 'make sure the stars are right' to get things done properly.


Thoughts?

[lugaid]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

'Oracle (Inspired, +100%; Magic, -10%) [28].'

Minor typo: in your haste, you missed on the point cost here, which should be [29] (15 × 190% = 28.5).

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by lugaid

Minor typo: in your haste, you missed on the point cost here, which should be [29] (15 × 190% = 28.5).

It might have been a typographical error rather than mathematical, but is now corrected either way. Thank you.


I've been thinking about it some more. I considered saying something about Gandalf, and I might do a 'power stunts as spells' write-up for Tolkien's Legendarium later (though I'm not sure Oracle is the best core advantage for Tolkien's wizards; a plausible one, but Serendipity or something else might be better), but right now I'm thinking of a different concept involving white robes: the Druids.

Sadly, what we have on the historical druids is pretty limited and questionable (and unless new evidence unexpectedly crops up that says otherwise, I have to assume that historical druids did not have magical powers), so a lot of this is going to be off the top of my head. For example, I'm going to assume that the druids and ollaves and such would tend to make their homes in the woods near their villages, or perhaps in the liminal spaces where woodland and cultivated land meet - near the community and part of it, but not within it.

Oracle makes a fair bit of sense for an historical priesthood, since interpreting the omens is often a core part of their job in many cultures (e.g. Rome, where Caesar and others cynically 'interpreted' the omens to say whatever was politically advantageous at the time - not so safe a decision in a world with actual omens and gods, though). The core skill is probably Religious Ritual (Druidism), though Symbol Drawing (Ogham) is also plausible; whichever of those is the primary skill, the other is probably a complementary skill. Herb Lore, Naturalist, and Theology (Druidism) would also be complementary skills. Ritual Magic (Celtic) or something similar is probably mutually complementary with the core skill, but I don't feel like it should be the druids' usual core skill.

Apart from interpreting the omens, common spells probably cover dealing with animals, plants, and the weather, with disease (very important, especially in early TLs) and other healing matters, and finding and getting rid of evil spirits. Less magically, they probably get involved in settling disputes, and possibly in solving crimes where the perpetrator isn't already known (the latter probably involves some magic, and could make for an interesting GURPS Mysteries campaign).

One area where straight uses of Oracle would be especially important is in finding out what someone's gesan are. Culturally, this is quite important (GURPS Celtic Myth goes into some detail, mainly in pp86-89, and while the book was written for 3e, it should still be useful), and gamewise, potentially really interesting. As a disadvantage, I suggest that most gesan could be treated as Unluckiness with a strange mitigator, Cursed with a strange mitigator, or an odd form of Divine Curse (which might be the easiest, since you work the mitigator directly into the description of the curse); though in all cases it seems that part of the bad luck you get from breaking one gesa is that you're more likely to be forced into a situation where you break another gesa, until you hit your Death Gesa (which I like Varyon's suggestion for - bad luck-themed Terminally Ill with a Pact-limited negating advantage makes sense here). The 'good gesa' (Celtic Myth p88) would probably be covered by a Destiny advantage or advantages, sometimes including one linked to the Death Gesa.

Afflicting new gesa is something that is done in the myths, but seems to be done almost casually and even impulsively (such as the gesan that Cu Chulainn imposed on his son, which got him killed by Cu Chulainn), rather than as spells, so if you're hewing close to the myths, imposing a gesa is a setting switch rather than a power, and requires the GM to know the players well enough to trust that they won't abuse it. If you're not sticking that close, or are interpreting them differently, then it's an Affliction that you power stunt up as needed.


Thoughts?

[Prince Charon]

I've been thinking about various ways to do types of magic that are explicitly divided into multiple categories (so elements, aspects, colleges, paths, et cetra) in a power stunts as spells system - which might or might not work well in a game, I don't currently have a group to playtest my theories with, but at least can be an interesting intellectual exercise. I've got about four methods, depending on how you count them:

1. One core advantage and skill, but several power talents. So for example, you have Steal Power, but you have psi power talents other than Psychic Vampirism, so you're better with abilities from some powers than others. A small variation on this is to have a few abilities that are not divided by category, with several power talents, e.g. you have Psi Sense with Signature Sniffer to understand abilities and know that there's energy available, but you imitate them with a Control Psychic Energy advantage, and again, have some psi power talents at various levels.


2. One core advantage (or again, two or more connected advantages not divided by aspect) with several skills. This is rather like a simplified version of Path/Book Magic, or Ritual Magic. Perhaps you have Serendipity (Wishing, +100%; Magic, -10%) as the core advantage (possibly assisted by Intuition or Detect Magic), and then have the usual set of Paths from GURPS Thaumatology. Alternatively, maybe the core advantage is a form of Insubstantiality, and you have various College skills for the different ways that you 'impose the nature of the Ethereal upon the Physical.'


3. Separate advantages and skills for each category. I've been thinking of a couple of these for the Colours of Magic idea, one being different Afflictions or Innate Attacks for each Colour (Burning Attack makes sense for Orange Magic, while an Affliction like Cursed or Unluckiness works well with Purple Magic). Another would be having separate Control <colour> Mana advantages for each one (Control Red Mana, Control Green Mana, et cetra), though that might fit better with option 4, below.


4. Several core advantages, but one skill. This is kind of an odd one, but I do have an example: You have several gods or divine servitor-spirits as Contacts, each of whom is helpful in a different area (they mostly give information, but you can by RAW get small favors from your Contacts - 'small' being from the Contact's viewpoint - and you can bribe them to be more helpful), and the core skill for all your effects is Religious Ritual. This kind of fits with how the Romans seem to have done their religion, and could be described as a lower-power (or more subtle) version of Powers: Divine Favor.


What do you think? Do any of these stand out as particularly interesting, or do any seem like a bad idea?

[dataweaver]

My gut instinct is to treat this as a set of Powers, each with one or more Abilities; and each Ability would have its own skill, which can be used for Power Stunts involving that Ability. This is basically how Psionic Powers works; except that Power Stunts as Spells lends itself naturally to an Alternate Abilities structure similar to Divine Favor or Sorcery (an Alternate Ability is basically a “Use Ability at Default” that you have gotten so good at that it no longer requires energy or a skill roll to activate), and Power Stunts as Spells tends to favor highly flexible Abilities to maximize the flexibility of the Power Stunts.

I'd also take a look at the “Realms as Powers” box in Thaumatology, p. 190. In a nutshell, that box suggests that a “Realm” Power should usually consist of a mix of Detect, Control, Create, and maybe a few others.

Finally, I could see implementing Threshold Magic with this: instead of spells draining an Energy Reserve or the magician's FP, have them generate Tally.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

<SNIP interesting thoughts>

Finally, I could see implementing Threshold Magic with this: instead of spells draining an Energy Reserve or the magician's FP, have them generate Tally.

This last bit could apply to nearly any power-stunts-as-spells system (though one intended for subtle magic would have issues with this). Of course, it would have more world-building implications than usual for magic costs, but it's still worth thinking about.