Death by advantage

[Daigoro]

I’ve had a think about some earlier comments.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

You are overlooking "selectively". Only the parts that would prevent you from walking on progressively higher treads are treated as not solid, the rest is solid.

To be fair, there’s no mention of selectivity in the advantage write-up, or where it’s expanded upon in Powers. All it says is the power lets you pass through particular solid materials, not that you can interact with them from the inside. Normally GURPS requires a Selective or Partial Change type enhancement to allow this level of control, so there would be no reason to assume that it’s different with Permeation. You need to assume that it is selective to allow walking on stairs.

However, if you do accept that it is selective, wouldn’t this also imply that you can gain most of the effects of Clinging? You would be able to climb a sheer surface by partially permeating your hands into the material and grasping “rungs.” The flavour text of the ability would be different to Clinging (which lets you stick to the outside surface of the wall), but the game effect would be the same- Clinging means no Climbing skill roll is required, and one’s not required for climbing a ladder either. One effect of Clinging, slowing or breaking a fall, may or may not be allowed- it depends on if you’re able to “slide” through a semi-fluid, semi-solid substance, or if you can only selectively treat the material as solid.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

We've established they are already walking on permeated material while they are in the horizontal plane. POWERS p.167 allows you to use Permeation to sink out of out of the way of attacks as a Power Dodge; since this shouldn't kill you or trap you either, the ability would allow you to rise up later as well.

This makes sense, but if the vertical move aspect of the power is not mentioned in its description or in the expanded explanation in Powers, but instead only mentioned in a different chapter of that book under “Defending with Powers,” then that pretty much says that the RAW could be worded better.

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

No, it doesn't. It says, "if you lack Flight or another movement advantage, you must walk at your Basic Move". That's all it says -- and that text is mainly there to prevent someone from thinking that Permeation worked like Insubstantiality (which does include slow Flight).

Ok, I misspoke there, but in the context of the rest of that sentence and in previous comments I’d made, I was talking about “moving around vertically.” And walking doesn’t immediately suggest that walking up stairs is included, to my mind. But I’m curious now- what other movement advantages could that sentence be referring to? I can’t imagine how things like Terrain Adaptation, Tunnelling (which is an alternative to Permeating, or an enhancement to it), Warp or Walk on Water would be relevant to permeating. This leaves Flight (already covered), Walk on Air, and Clinging. The effects of Walk on Air are apparently assumed as part of Permeation, and the effects of Clinging would seem to be granted by selective Permeation as well. Is there one I’ve missed?

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

... of the forums' cast of thousands the only two to have a problem with it are you and Asta Kask.

I’m not just harping on about this out of pure bloody-mindedness (although that is a malady I’m occasionally prone to). As Asta Kask noted, how the ability works in regard to permeating Earth or Stone is not clear, and it’s only if you consider how it should work in that context that you need to deduce vertical movement. If you can only permeate other materials, then it’s not obvious at all that you should be able to move up and down, and this came up with my gaming group.

In our game, my character had Permeate (Wood) and he walked inside a large tree. After checking the advantage description, my gaming group decided that I couldn’t move higher than the base of the tree, where my feet were touching the ground, as I didn’t have Flight or another ability, and was thus obeying the laws of gravity.
“Can I grasp the outside surface to pull myself up?”
“No, you’d need something like Partial Change to do that.”
So, that time I was stuck hiding in the base of the tree, and when I had the points to spend I dutifully added Walk in Wood to my character sheet (written as Walk on Air (Wood Only -50%) [10pts]). And note that, as a result of this thread, I have now recycled those 10pts into something more useful.

Perhaps then this could be added to the Permeability FAQ.

On a finishing note, what would Kitty Pryde have, as shown in X-Men 3? Generally I would go with Insubstantial, particularly with the way she power dodges a missile in the danger room sequence. But when she drags Juggernaut into the concrete floor in the research labs at the end, and he has to punch his way out, that seems more like Permeation. A bit of each perhaps?