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Old 01-04-2021, 08:58 PM   #21
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Right, but many in this thread are arguing that that's a distinction that makes less difference than the mode of handling. And, as you point out, if artillery lasers and artillery projectiles both fall under the Artillery skill, due to their method of control, why not the same for their handguns?
Artillery Beam weapons are much less straight forward things than Lasers. The canonical UT examples are things like Ghost Particle Projectors and Tachyon Displacers. Basically you need to aim at a 3D point rather than a 2D line of sight.

Laser cannons are a Gunner Skill.

I don't see how Beam Weapons and Guns can reasonably be the same Skills. We tend to look at it for defualts going from Guns to Lasers but what about the other way? There probably shouldn't be a Default from Lasers to guns. A future man whod never seen a gun at first hand or even seen it fired in a detailed and realistic video probably shouldn't be given a Default from Attribute.
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Artillery Beam weapons are much less straight forward things than Lasers. The canonical UT examples are things like Ghost Particle Projectors and Tachyon Displacers. Basically you need to aim at a 3D point rather than a 2D line of sight.

Laser cannons are a Gunner Skill.
Ok, but Artillery still covers projectiles and forms of beam weapon then. Likewise Gunner covers beams and projectiles, despite the difference in windage and droppage and despite the fact that engagement is more likely to occur at ranges where those become important factors.

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I don't see how Beam Weapons and Guns can reasonably be the same Skills. We tend to look at it for defualts going from Guns to Lasers but what about the other way? There probably shouldn't be a Default from Lasers to guns. A future man whod never seen a gun at first hand or even seen it fired in a detailed and realistic video probably shouldn't be given a Default from Attribute.
I think that's a generic question about when defaults can be used rather than one particular to beamers and slugthrowers. For example, would your average suburban gun owner, who's done the self-defense course and had a few hours on the range with their 9mm auto, be able to fire a smoothbore musket?

How much trouble would your future man have using a Gauss Minineedler from the same TL if he'd never seen one? Would he need different skills to use a laser pistol and a gauss pistol made by the same manufacturer with the same profile?
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Last edited by Daigoro; 01-04-2021 at 10:01 PM. Reason: added musket example
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Old 01-05-2021, 12:02 AM   #23
Ulzgoroth
 
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Artillery Beam weapons are much less straight forward things than Lasers. The canonical UT examples are things like Ghost Particle Projectors and Tachyon Displacers. Basically you need to aim at a 3D point rather than a 2D line of sight.

Laser cannons are a Gunner Skill.
Per Spaceships, Artillery (Beams) is suitable for any beam weapon if you're laying it based on direction from a forward observer (relevant for orbital fire when the atmosphere doesn't give a good view) rather than direct sighting. I think I've seen discussion of it for lasers bounced off orbital mirrors too but I don't remember where that was or if it was canonical.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
I don't see how Beam Weapons and Guns can reasonably be the same Skills. We tend to look at it for defualts going from Guns to Lasers but what about the other way? There probably shouldn't be a Default from Lasers to guns. A future man whod never seen a gun at first hand or even seen it fired in a detailed and realistic video probably shouldn't be given a Default from Attribute.
Why not?

There's two very separate things gun skill is used for, really. One is the primary application of shooting the thing accurately. I can't see any reason that would necessitate any real familiarity with firearms, as opposed to with the ergonomics of a gun-shaped object. In most settings handheld beam weapons remain gun-shaped objects, and that's probably justified. I see no reason somebody who uses a laser pistol couldn't use a ready handgun with literally the exact same technique and get passable results (though recoil might come as a nasty shock).

On the other hand, there's the secondary but undeniably critical 'armory-lite' aspect of dealing with firearm mechanics outside of the shot itself. Having no idea about cocking a single-action weapon, not knowing how to reload, and so forth could certainly be issues for someone with no familiarity with firearms.
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Old 01-05-2021, 07:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

I don't know about melding beam weapons and gnus, but here's a possible version with a buffalo:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0f/71...2bb7ab8799.jpg
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

A powerful laser would have a reaction, but it would be a constant tug instead of a jerky recoil.
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

There was a Pyramid article that tried to simplify the Guns skill. It basically got rid of the existing specializations, and replaced them with how you hold/use the weapon: Pistol, Long Arm (i.e. rifles), and Shoulder-Mounted.

It then went to add a whole bunch of cumulative familiarity modifiers: caliber, ignition, action/mechanism (automatic vs pump), handling, sights, feed, etc. I'd have to re-find the article to get the full list and nuances.

Personally, I think this method works perfectly fine for adding Beam Weapons into the mix as well. Just plug in where a beam weapon differs from a non-beam weapon into the familiarity penalty lists. You can even distinguish between beam weapons if a laser is different from a blaster or sonic disruptor.
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:14 AM   #27
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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A powerful laser would have a reaction, but it would be a constant tug instead of a jerky recoil.
I would have to be insanely powerful for the reaction to be noticed.
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:32 AM   #28
DouglasCole
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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A powerful laser would have a reaction, but it would be a constant tug instead of a jerky recoil.
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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
I would have to be insanely powerful for the reaction to be noticed.
Atomic Rockets is always a good place to start: http://www.projectrho.com/public_htm...earmenergy.php
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Old 01-05-2021, 11:59 AM   #29
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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Originally Posted by Kallatari View Post
There was a Pyramid article that tried to simplify the Guns skill. It basically got rid of the existing specializations, and replaced them with how you hold/use the weapon: Pistol, Long Arm (i.e. rifles), and Shoulder-Mounted.
Pyramid 3/65.
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Old 01-05-2021, 12:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: Melding Beam Weapons and Guns

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I would have to be insanely powerful for the reaction to be noticed.
I had a powerful photographic flashgun that had slight, but detectable recoil. This was due to it heating up the air in front of its output window, but you'd get a similar effect with a powerful pulsed laser.
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