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Old 07-30-2018, 03:31 PM   #21
KevinJ
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Arizona
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

In my house rule version I made Adept a 3pt IQ10 Talent that is what separates an 'Adept' from everyone else.

How Magic Works: an Adepts guide to spell casting.

Using Magic: A Summary of Methods

If you have the Adept Talent, you may use magic as follows:
From Memory: You have learned this spell by paying an IQ point. Make your adjDX roll, Pay the FT cost if it succeeds, 1 FT if it fails.

From a Scroll: You must be Literate and the scroll must be a language you can read. If the spell’s IQ level is higher than yours, you are -2 DX for every IQ point difference. Make your adjDX roll and pay the FT cost if is succeeds or 1 FT if it fails. Either way, the scroll is destroyed during use.

From a Book: You must be literate and the book must be a language you know. The spell must be equal to or lower than your IQ. You must have your Mage’s Chest with you, be in a Mage’s Laboratory. It takes 5 minutes (60 rounds) to cast a spell from a book; make you DX roll at the end of this time. You suffer a DX-2 because the task is unfamiliar. Pay the FT cost for casting the spell, or 1 FT if you fail. Only IQ 14 or lower spells may be cast from a book.

Using a Magic Item: As described for that item, Adepts can use all magical items.

If you do not have the Adept Talent, you may still use some kinds of magic, as follows:
From Memory: Exactly as an Adept.

From a Scroll or Book: You are unable to fathom the arcane formulae and mystical symbols. This knowledge is granted through intensive study (get the Adept Talent...)

Using a Magic Item: As described for that item. Non-Adepts can use many magic items.

Any character pays the same for Talents, Spells, Languages, etc. After running my game for about 8 months and the upcoming TFT I think I will increase the cost of Adept to 5 and only Adepts will be able to use the Staff spell as it currently stands.
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Last edited by KevinJ; 07-30-2018 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 07-30-2018, 07:53 PM   #22
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

To KevinJ:

Your house rules seem very playable as a way to eliminate the artificial Hero/Wizard distinction. I do wonder though if a cost of 5 for Adept is a little steep because that represents half the potential knowledge of the average IQ 10 character. On the other hand, making the game balanced and fun for a particular group of players is the only criterion that matters.

It was a brilliant move for 5th Edition D&D to de-emphasize artificial limitations such as Alignment and encourage DMs to implement any house rule that makes the game fun for their players. I believe this flexibility is also one of TFT’s greatest strengths.
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Old 07-31-2018, 03:09 AM   #23
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

My notes for this are long lost but were something along these lines:

First, I did away with the Hero/Wizard distinction. Then I created two new Talents:

Hedge Wizard/Witch. IQ 8 cost 3
This represents someone who has a natural affinity with Magic or has learnt within a tradition. The hedge Wizard does not have to be literate and will not know Sorcerors Tongue. They can learn spells up to IQ 12 at normal cost. If they wish to learn spells beyond IQ 12 the cost is double and take twice as long to learn. They can't use scrolls or Spell Books.

True Wizard. IQ 14 cost 4.
This represents someone who has had formal training in Magic either in a school or via direct apprenticeship. They must be literate and will know the Sorcerors Tongue. They can learn any spell at cost of 1 point. (These are the Wizards as they currently exist in TFT.)

I can't remember if I set the level for Hedge Wizard at 11 or 12 IQ. Invisibility is an IQ12 spell and I don't know if I wanted that as a power for the uneducated folk Magician.

But you get the idea.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:53 AM   #24
flankspeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
... First, I did away with the Hero/Wizard distinction. Then I created two new Talents:....
I had not thought of the idea of breaking up magic talent into two tiers rather than breaking out all their skills into separate talents as I suggested in a slightly earlier post.

The first part of your two-tier system that I might adjust by house ruling would be to not have any talent cost more than three points of IQ simply because that is the current highest amount used in the rules as written. Also, forcing magic users to learn a talent takes a big bite out of the number of spells they can memorize, and that is already a major change to SJ's original game balance.

The second part I would consider house ruling is that of lowering the required IQs, since requiring a 14 for true wizards skews them toward such a heavy investment in IQ at the expense of both ST and DX. I may be wrong, and your hedge category somewhat covers this (depending on whether the requirement is IQ 8 or 11/12), but in SJ's rules, you could make a lower IQ wizard (even less than IQ 12) who was still somewhat deadly because he had more ST and higher DX.

I also think this low-IQ, high-ST/DX character is a nice way to indicate a magic user who is something of a D&D sorcerer-type able to cast more spells with greater accuracy but being less versatile and limited in knowledge.

I don't mean any criticism, just thinking out loud, and my opinion is open to change through playtesting and further discussion. Thank you for contributing the food for thought!
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Last edited by flankspeed; 07-31-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:38 AM   #25
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flankspeed View Post
I had not thought of the idea of breaking up magic talent into two tiers rather than breaking out all their skills into separate talents as I suggested in a slightly earlier post.

The first part of your two-tier system that I might adjust by house ruling would be to not have any talent cost more than three points of IQ simply because that is the current highest amount used in the rules as written. Also, forcing magic users to learn a talent takes a big bite out of the number of spells they can memorize, and that is already a major change to SJ's original game balance.
It's not a major change if the talents come bundled with spells to account for the points you spent, which I think Chris posted about earlier (i.e. they ensure you will a minimum number of points on spells).
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:44 AM   #26
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

The purpose of this approach was to do away with the artificial Hero/Wizard distinction without adding complexity. Obviously you can tailor the approach to your tastes.

I felt IQ14 was ok for a Wizard since it must be at least as difficult as Alchemsist which is also IQ14. If preferred you could make it equivalent to Scholar which is IQ13. I had no problems with Wizards having to put most of their starting points into IQ as that fits with my vision of a High Wizard character. (Plus I allowed Wizards to store ST in their staffs so they didn't need a high ST attribute.)

As you say the Hedge Wizard option allowed the creation of characters who wanted to have some magic but also fight or have other Talents etc.
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Old 07-31-2018, 12:04 PM   #27
JLV
 
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Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

I like the idea, Chris -- but then I've always felt that magic was more complex than a lot of people seemed to think it was in their books and games, so I like the skill distinctions. I think magic is supposed to be hard to learn, and this sort of emphasizes that idea...
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Old 01-05-2023, 10:25 PM   #28
Shostak
 
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Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

What makes those “best” characters?
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Old 01-05-2023, 10:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

Here I cover the entire SRD list of character classes with extremely limited mods to basic TFT: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html
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Old 01-06-2023, 12:51 AM   #30
Infornific
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Default Re: 3 Character Types: Fighter, Wizard, Mixed (Bard, Cleric, Monk)

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Here I cover the entire SRD list of character classes with extremely limited mods to basic TFT: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html
Interesting system, but what exactly is CP based on? Not quite seeing how starting characters would be 33 cp.
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