Priest magic as Book magic

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Great idea.

I might also give a +2 to Self-Control rolls, Will rolls, etc. to resist temptations to stray, but if they fail anyway (or choose not to resist) the ritual is broken.

I think a subtle effect like this is more in order.

In Sagatafl, I have a Bless Union ritual (works for any kind of marriage, even same-sex) that, if translated into GURPS terms, is basically a one-use Luck to avert a threat to the marital bliss, via a re-roll. And with a limited duration.

The Bless spell from GURPS Magic may also be inspirational. Like that (if I recall the writeup correctly), but limited in how it can help.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ericthered

As for the magery being so cheap, I'd like to point out that this is very utilitarian magic that doesn't unbalance a campaign even if you have very high levels of magery in it. I suppose it makes extreme supernatural powers vulnerable to preists, but --- aren't they supposed to be very vulnerable to priests?

now if you have a different spell list, that might be an issue.

I don't know what "unbalance" means. My concern is world impact, which is something that happens through realistic NPC action. Realistic NPC decision making. If you give NPCs powerful and relaible magic, that's widely available, they will change the world. And frequently those changes will severely de-medievalize the world.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Wouldn't Christianity, Islam and their relatives count as Eastern? They came to most us from the (Near/Middle) East, unlike Daruma, after all.

I treat Christianity, Islam and Judaism as different flavours of the same religion, in my Ärth historical fantasy setting. That includes heresies, although as far as I know there weren't many of those in the 10th century. Or at least most heresies count as "same religion". If something goes too far off the Abrahamic pattern, obviously it should be something else. There's also a fourth Abrahamic religion, which has John the Baptist as its central prophet, so it's an offshoot of Judaism. It's very small and obscure, though.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

By "Eastern" I mean Hinduism, Buddhism, Shintoism and possibly Zoroastrianism (although the latter is closer to the Abrahamic religions). It's not a perfect geographical division - there are many muslim areas in Asia - but it is how the phrase would be used in Sweden.

Yes, Sweden had its own religion before Christianity arrived.

Zoroastrianism is a difficult thing in my Ärth setting. It's kinda Abrahamic, but not entirely so, and it's still around in very, very tiny quantities.

Ars Magica, in the recent 5th Edition supplement on the Divine, treats Zoroastroanism as a Divine thing, probably mostly because it's monotheist and may well have been part of the inspiration for Judaism and/or for Christinity (and/or Islam?).

But it doesn't quite fit the Abrahamic pattern, so my preference would be to treat it as a religion of its own, in Ärth.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by ericthered

As for the eastern religions: I don't know enough either.

Buddhism almost isn't a religion. I'm certainly quite inclined to not treat it as one, if I ever get around to developping the Asian part of my Ärth setting. Hinduism is just a variant of the standard Indo-European pattern, although of course with many elaborations.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

I treat Christianity, Islam and Judaism as different flavours of the same religion, in my Ärth historical fantasy setting. That includes heresies, although as far as I know there weren't many of those in the 10th century. Or at least most heresies count as "same religion". If something goes too far off the Abrahamic pattern, obviously it should be something else. There's also a fourth Abrahamic religion, which has John the Baptist as its central prophet, so it's an offshoot of Judaism. It's very small and obscure, though.

It was a play on the koan 'What is the meaning of Daruma's coming from the West?'. Buddhism migrated from India to Japan, while Abrahamic religions migrated from the Middle East to America.

[Anders]

Anyway, if you look at the original list I think it covers things that are universal - burial and marriage (although marriage was a non-religious ceremony long after Christianity made its way here), minor blessing, curing disease and soothing pain, casting out troublesome spirits and defence against curses. A 'basic package' so to speak.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Buddhism almost isn't a religion. I'm certainly quite inclined to not treat it as one, if I ever get around to developping the Asian part of my Ärth setting. Hinduism is just a variant of the standard Indo-European pattern, although of course with many elaborations.

Depends on your definition of religion. There are some very different views on that word.
Some define it as any form of philosophy or group of traditions without any psuedoscience, magic, or dogma required.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Depends on your definition of religion. There are some very different views on that word.
Some define it as any form of philosophy or group of traditions without any psuedoscience, magic, or dogma required.

Note that I'm not saying that Buddhism shouldn't "work" in my Ärth setting. All existing religions are true in that setting, as well as Satanism (a religion that did not exist in medieval times, and isn't the same as present-day Satanism anyway). They all produce results. Buddhism should produce results too. I just don't think it's simulatatively optimal to treat it as a religion.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

Anyway, if you look at the original list I think it covers things that are universal - burial and marriage (although marriage was a non-religious ceremony long after Christianity made its way here), minor blessing, curing disease and soothing pain, casting out troublesome spirits and defence against curses. A 'basic package' so to speak.

The one thing I'm not sure if you have, depending on exactly what Journeyman's Blessing does, is a religious act that blesses an endavour or expedition, e.g. a bunch of pagans who perform a great sacrifice before going out to raid or wage war.

If it doesn't cover that, you need one more ritual. And note that that can also work for Abrahamic blessings, e.g. a Catholic priest performing a mass for an army before a battle.