Chienese Elemental Powers + Sorcery = Win?

[Anders]

I'm thinking about combining these two supplements from two of my favorite GURPS authors. My only problem is the Elemental Frames, which give non-overlapping Lifting ST. The compendium suggests multiplying the cost by 1/5, but specifies that they are not Alternate Abilities. So combine that with the AA framework of Sorcery and you get... what?

My gut instinct is to charge for the most expensive and make the other two Perks. Any thoughts?

[weby]

Basically the chinese elemetal powers version seems to be a discount saying that "if you want a insurance against one of your powers being disables some way pay 1/5 extra for each extra non simultaneous copy instead of a second full price copy"

If you feel that that is good you could just use the 1/5 as base cost then for the others.

[Anders]

Sounds like double dipping. Hmm...

[Varyon]

Having backup abilities at 1/5th cost seems appropriate, and I think should stack just fine with the 1/5th for being Alternate Abilities. If improvising the ability, however, you should use its full cost - backups cost less solely for the purpose of game balance, but it makes little sense for someone to be better at improvising Wood Frame because he happens to also know Metal Frame.

[whswhs]

I think that the kind of point tradeoff you're talking about makes sense in the framework of CEP, where every ability is normally bought at full cost (you don't get to take AA on all your Wood powers except the most expensive, even though you won't normally use two of them at the same time). If you are fitting this into the framework of Sorcery, where pretty much everything is an AA, the same logic doesn't apply, or not so obviously. I would be cautious about allowing it. In fact I'd go back to first principles and reinvent all the elemental powers as sorcery spells.

This is kind of like the people who want to turn their D&D character into a GURPS character, and want to know the exact GURPS equivalent of everything on their character sheet. That sort of approach is overliteral, to my mind. Trying to make everything work exactly the same can produce poorly designed results. The trick is to produce something in the same spirit.

[PK]

The "double buy" rule explained in GURPS Powers and GURPS PU8: limitations is an alternative (no pun intended) to AAs. You can't stack them. So if you're mixing sorcery and CEP, treat the Frames as normal spells.

[weby]

Originally Posted by PK

The "double buy" rule explained in GURPS Powers and GURPS PU8: limitations is an alternative (no pun intended) to AAs. You can't stack them. So if you're mixing sorcery and CEP, treat the Frames as normal spells.

But given that the different frames are the same effect(lifting ST), what would be the reason to take more than one in that case?

[PK]

Originally Posted by weby

But given that the different frames are the same effect(lifting ST), what would be the reason to take more than one in that case?

There isn't one. Sorry.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by weby

But given that the different frames are the same effect(lifting ST), what would be the reason to take more than one in that case?

In CEP, the reason is that if you have Lifting ST as a wood ability, you might run into someone who can cripple your wood power with Glinting Edge or Stream of Needles (metal) or with Pressure Secrets and Touching the Liver (also metal), leaving you unable to boost your ST. But if you also have it as a metal or stone ability, you're good!

[weby]

Originally Posted by whswhs

In CEP, the reason is that if you have Lifting ST as a wood ability, you might run into someone who can cripple your wood power with Glinting Edge or Stream of Needles (metal) or with Pressure Secrets and Touching the Liver (also metal), leaving you unable to boost your ST. But if you also have it as a metal or stone ability, you're good!

Yes, but if you convert them to spells, you lose that benefit as something crippling/neutralizing an ability will also neutralize the alternate abilities.

That was the reason for my comment that in CEP you pay +1/5 cost to gain protection against that. In sorcery there is no corresponding protection possible, though I guess you could lower the probability of being neutralized with Protected Power if it is allowed by the GM.