release triggers / accidental discharge of pull-triggers

[Plane]

The "release trigger" (your finger lets go to fire) isn't something I can find covered in High Tech. It seems like something relevant to Major Wounds since per B420 if you fail your HT roll and get stunned, "if you were holding anything, you drop it" which would automatically fire a release-trigger rifle.

I don't know if that's necessarily something which applies to all stuns (ie mental stun from fear, the physical stun from unmodified Affliction) or only from the combination of "Knockdown and Stunning" from major wounds HT rolls.

For traditional rifles (pulling trigger fires) I'm wondering how we cover situations like where someone is hit and instead of dropping anything they're holding they might reflexively (unintentionally) grip it harder and accidentally fire off a round.

Or even if say they don't accidentally pull the trigger, if dropping the gun from a major wound and the gun hitting the ground might somehow set off some guns.

Mostly a consideration for stealth (gun sound) or if ammo limits (maybe you have 1 cartridge left) and safety (accidentally hitting an ally) though I don't know what you'd roll to see who was hit in terms of accidental discharges since there is no original target to miss.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Plane

The "release trigger" (your finger lets go to fire) isn't something I can find covered in High Tech..

I've never heard of any gun with such a trigger. You certainly couldn't build it in the US today for legal liability reasons.

I think even the Deadman's Switch" for explsoive devices may be mostly fictional.

I think High Tech does mention guns that might fire if dropped or impacted. It's msotly ones that have been actively cocked or old SA revovlers or very bad guns like the Japanese 94 Shiki from WWII.

As for unintentional discharges you pick or roll for a direction and then it's a 9 or less for anybody in a relevant hex.

[Kromm]

It's a trap-shooting gimmick used almost nowhere outside of shotgun match shooting. We talked about it briefly in the playtest . . . it mostly falls below game resolution. I guess you could model its effects by saying it drops RoF to 1, but wipes out up to -2 for opportunity fire.

It has few tactical uses, if any, because tactical shooting usually involves either rapid follow-up shots (where this is useless) or aimed fire (where this isn't going to add anything). Notably, it won't let you get instant vengeance on a person you're pointing your gun at if you get shot, because if you get shot and flinch or fall, the odds that release will happen after you're hit but before your barrel strays off-target are pretty remote. Call it 9 or less on 3d or the lower of your actual odds to hit if you try that, and note that everybody else downrange is equally likely to be hit at similar odds if that doesn't work out.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Kromm

it won't let you get instant vengeance on a person you're pointing your gun at if you get shot, because if you get shot and flinch or fall, the odds that release will happen after you're hit but before your barrel strays off-target are pretty remote

I was thinking along the lines that if a rogue snuck up on someone and backstabbed them while they were doing Aim that it would be more likely to go off and alert the sniper's buddies that something was off.

IE when you're the overlord with a bunch of your minions with weapons trained on the hero ready to shoot if he tries anything: you don't expect them to shoot if he's not trying anything, but in the meantime the rogue might take them out allowing hero to escape.

[Kromm]

I think the real issue is that these gadgets don't show up outside of trap-shooting competitions. I don't see them fitting into any realistic tactical narrative.

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I think the real issue is that these gadgets don't show up outside of trap-shooting competitions. I don't see them fitting into any realistic tactical narrative.

Yup. A trigger that operates backwards is something militaries will be very sceptical about, simply because it's different from other firearms, and thus risks confusion. They tend to be very keen to avoid negligent discharges, and this gadget will promote those.

[Tinman]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Yup. A trigger that operates backwards is something militaries will be very sceptical about, simply because it's different from other firearms, and thus risks confusion. They tend to be very keen to avoid negligent discharges, and this gadget will promote those.

It's pretty much the exact opposite of accepted trigger discipline & standard safety protocols.

[Tinman]

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would want one of these types of triggers. All I can see is down-side (unless it's a dead-man switch for a bomb or something.)

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Tinman

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would want one of these types of triggers. All I can see is down-side (unless it's a dead-man switch for a bomb or something.)

After a quick search, I see various discussions with claims that there may a minor reflexive jerk (that could throw off an aimed shot) when squeezing a trigger that is less likely to occur when releasing one. Even if we grant this as true (and I imagine the reality is closer to "manufacturer invents cool new modification for gun, marketing dreams up some imagined benefit"), I would presume characters with points in Guns skill in GURPS have already overcome any such issues.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

After a quick search, I see various discussions with claims that there may a minor reflexive jerk (that could throw off an aimed shot) when squeezing a trigger that is less likely to occur when releasing one. Even if we grant this as true (and I imagine the reality is closer to "manufacturer invents cool new modification for gun, marketing dreams up some imagined benefit"), I would presume characters with points in Guns skill in GURPS have already overcome any such issues.

If it actually sees use in any kind of competitive shooting, it doesn't seem likely that it addresses an issue irrelevant to skilled shooters.

More likely that it provides a real but minor benefit in the particular circumstances it's intended for while being impractical and/or ineffective in more general contexts.

Like some of the specialty target-pistol grips I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of.