Modern Monster Hunting Guns [XM500, MICOR Leader 50, etc.]

[Tomsdad]

Hang on thinking outside the box for a second how about adapting the Barrett M97 Dragonfang, .50 Browning from the High Tech designers notes?

You'll need to add the stock back on, but you could do that by reversing the process in TS (and factor in the stat line is based on one handed firing)

That's a FA 12.7mm Acc 4*, assault carbine with a bulk of only -4*. It would be MinST14 (if I've factored two handed use and stock right).

It will still be heavy, but I'm not sure why your worrying too much about the weight at ST14+.

The range look's a touch high, but really it's not going to come up as you don't seem to be intending to fire this at long range anyway.



*when you put the stock on

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Hang on thinking outside the box for a second how about adapting the Barrett M97 Dragonfang, .50 Browning from the High Tech designers notes?

You'll need to add the stock back on, but you could do that by reversing the process in TS (and factor in the stat line is based on one handed firing)

That's a FA 12.7mm assault carbine with a bulk of only -4*. It would be MinST14 if I've factored two handed use and stock right.

Good idea, but I'm not sure that the stats given are perfectly right. It's supposed to be short-barrelled, but does the exact same damage as a full-size M82A1 rifle.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

It will still be heavy, but I'm not sure why your worrying too much about the weight at ST14+.

Weight is always a consideration, if only because every 4.4 lbs. you save somewhere can be used for another magazine of .50 BMG bullets.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Good idea, but I'm not sure that the stats given are perfectly right. It's supposed to be short-barrelled, but does the exact same damage as a full-size M82A1 rifle.

Hmm good point (range seems high as well)

Originally Posted by Icelander

Weight is always a consideration, if only because every 4.4 lbs. you save somewhere can be used for another magazine of .50 BMG bullets.

True but at ST14 your likely to be carrying .50 Mags like someone with ST10 carries 7.62 mags

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Hmm good point (range seem high as well)

Anecdotal evidence suggests that 20" barrel .50 BMG rifles are extremely unpleasant to shoot and perform fairly poorly, as much of the propellant does not burn inside the barrel. Cue fireball, concussion that slams you in the face like a donkey's punch and a loss of ca 450-600 fps of muzzle velocity (-15% to 20%).

This means that Range and Dmg ought to be reduced from a 29" barrel for any short-barrelled .50 BMG platform.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

True but at ST14 your likely to be carrying .50 Mags like someone with ST10 carries 7.62 mags

In a Monster Hunter scenario, you had better be!

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Anecdotal evidence suggests that 20" barrel .50 BMG rifles are extremely unpleasant to shoot and perform fairly poorly, as much of the propellant does not burn inside the barrel. Cue fireball, concussion that slams you in the face like a donkey's punch and a loss of ca 450-600 fps of muzzle velocity (-15% to 20%).


This means that Range and Dmg ought to be reduced from a 29" barrel for any short-barrelled .50 BMG platform.

Well that loss in velocity would seem reasonably close to the loss in damage suggested by the general rules in TS we talked about earlier.

But yes it certainly going to be loud etc.

I guess the thing is .50 BMG is just designed to be fired from full length barrel.

The closest I can find in real life to what you initial describe is those Bush master conversion kits for those big straight hunting rounds on the AR carbines

Originally Posted by Icelander

In a Monster Hunter scenario, you had better be!

True

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

Well that loss in velocity would seem reasonably close to the loss in damage suggested by the general rules in TS we talked about earlier.

Yep. But I'm not sure whether I should increase Rcl and ST as well. Other .50 BMG rifles than the M82A1 have been statted with ST 14 and Rcl 4, probably acounting for lack of muzzle brake and/or floating barrel. I wonder if a 20" barrel bullpup .50 BMG could be ST 15 and Rcl 5, or if that's excessive.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

But yes it certainly going to be loud etc..

Obnoxiously and awesomely so.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

I guess the thing is .50 BMG is just designed to be fired from full length barrel.

I'm currently looking for data on how .408 CheyTac and .416 Barrett perform from 16"-20" barrels.

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

The closest I can fin in real life to what you initial describe is those Bush master conversion kits for those big straight hunting rounds on the AR carbines

There are a lot of AR-15 uppers available in pi+ calibers, but surprisingly, much less in AR-10.

I would think that an AR-10 rifle built for the 45 Raptor cartridge would be ideal for monster hunters. You can get a 20-rd magazine that is the same size as a regular .308 magazine, but instead of shooting through werewolves and wendigos with a light, speedy bullet of 150-170 grain, you can hit 'em with a 300 grain expanding one.

[Icelander]

The required ST 10† for the .50 Beowulf seems rather optimistic, especially in a very light 7-lb carbine with enough felt recoil to require Rcl 4. On the other hand, that matches the stats for .300 WM from a light rifle, so maybe it's just right.

Would .458 SOCOM and 45 Raptor have ST 10† as well? The .458 SOCOM carbine could be as light as the Alexander Arms Entry, but 45 Raptor calls for an AR-10 platform, which is heavier.

The .458 SOCOM might conceivably rate a lower Rcl, but the 45 Raptor has more velocity, so it will probably stay the same Rcl from a heavier AR-10 platform.

I haven't input these rounds in Douglas Cole's spreadsheet yet, but I have an eyeball feel for Dmg by comparing them to similar cartridges.

I'm leaning toward Dmg 6d pi+ for the .458 SOCOM and 7d pi+ for the 45 Raptor, in both cases from a 16" barrel.

[Icelander]

Bad Place Entry Carbine
LE/Military Only AR-15 Monster Hunting Carbine in .458 SOCOM:
Dmg: 5d+1 pi+;
Acc: 4;
Range: 290/3,100;
Weight: 7.9/1.5;
RoF: 13*;
Shots: 15+1(3);
ST: 10†;
Bulk: -4*;
Rcl: 3;
Cost: $2,100/$56;

This is an AR-15 style lower mated with a short-barrelled .458 SOCOM upper. It can be bought from such semi-custom retailers as Wilson Combat or Rock River Arms or assembled from parts by a character with the Armoury (Smallarms) skill. Note that the listed price is the price that would apply if this weapon were in production, i.e. for an institute or organisation of Monster Hunters, and might be substantially increased in a realistic setting where the weapon is a custom design, especially if the character does not do his own gunsmithing. Note also that for legal reasons, it is forbidden/extremely difficult/troublesome for civilians in many parts of the world, even many to most states of the US, to buy rifle barrels shorter than 16", suppressors, full-auto trigger groups, high-capacity magazines and folding or collapsible stocks (especially with pistol grips).

As this weapon is not intended for anyone other than cinematic or government-backed Monster Hunters, it is not bound by considerations of civilian legality. It therefore comes with a heavy 10.5" barrel threaded for a quick-detach wet baffle suppressor (-3 Hearing, -1 Bulk, expensive, $1,500, 1.1 lb), two-stage gas regulator for optimal use with the suppressor and a selector switch allowing semi-automatic operation, 3-round burst fire and full-automatic fire. It also has an aftermarket stock with a decent recoil pad (e.g. Mako GL-Shock) and a Law Tactical AR Folding Stock Adapter ($200, 0.6 lb) that allows the stock to fold to the side. The weapon also comes with improved visibility sights and Picatinny accessory rails for the attachment of various optional accessories.

The listed magazines are CMMG .223 caliber 40-rd magazines, which hold 15 .458 SOCOM rounds. Almost any AR-15 compatible magazines can be used instead, with .223 caliber 20-rd magazines holding 7 .458 SOCOM rounds and 30-rd .223 caliber magazines holding 10 rounds.

The greatest advantage of the heavier caliber over a standard .223/5.56mm carbine is the performance with heavy subsonic rounds for suppressed use. With 530 grain hollow-point bullets, the weapon gets Dmg 4d pi++ and Range 290/1,800. These subsonic rounds will cycle in full-auto, but the suppressor will not stand up to extended use.

[Tomsdad]

Nice right up,

But in terms of stats would you not be better of with the Alexander Arms .50 (maybe with an extended magazine, and FA conversion if you really wanted it)? You've lost a point of Bulk and Rcl* I guess but I think I'd prefer 6d+1 pi+.

Also will you not have issue with sub sonic and hollow point together occasionally causing the hollow points not to expand (you could go with glasers anyway of course) I maybe wrong about that with heavy rounds though?

Another way to go is 10g magnum rifled slugs, but until someone makes a 10g with detachable box magazine, capacity is an issue (as is of course recoil for hitting more than once a turn), but 8d-2* pi++ is hard to argue with.

*or 7d+1 depending on how you run the numbers.

[Green-Neck]

Considering that you want an entry gun (not a long range sniper) you could go the route of an aa12 with 3" magnum solids.
Edit: has anyone tried to stat the breneke black magic 3" solids? 600 gr at 1500 fps. I'd be curious to see if they got near your 7d penetration requirement.
Edit 2: using.26 * ((Muzzle Energy in J * Projectile Diameter in cm / .735)^.5)^1.12
I get 7d+1 pi++