Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Mister Negative

I would say, if you are using standard GURPS magic, make sure to carefully vet the spells (and the breadth of spells) which you are allowing the PCs to learn.

Quoted For Truth. This is excellent advice for ANY campaign that uses GURPS Magic. Know thy players ... and more importantly, know thy players' character sheets!

[HuManBing]

Thanks to the mods for the move, and thanks to the experts for the advice!

I'll get familiar with the combat system first and the skills too. My vision of Ravenloft's magic is substantially lower than the usual DnD norm, so the alternative magic sounds good as a starting point.

I do want to keep Azalin Rex as a very powerful wizard and the standard high fantasy magic system sounds good for him. The players can choose, at an advanced stage, to follow a path that allies them (knowingly or not) with him and thus they gain standard high fantasy magic too.

Obviously all spells have to be thoroughly vetted beforehand, but I always used to do that back in d20 games too. Magic spells are like magic items... you have to make sure they fit into the game's projected challenge! And the players really shouldn't even find anything in-game without the GM's specific say-so.

Any GURPS magic system is better than the Vancian system though. That system was really harsh on casters, requiring them to second guess the DM's plans and to painstakingly prepare spells that may or may not be of use. Many of the effects were arbitrary and the spell level calculus seems not particularly rigid mathematically speaking.

It sufficed for a few years, I suppose, but in the end it's nice to see an alternative that seems to have more rigor, y'know? ;)

[Mehmet]

There are lots of good advice here. I have nothing much to add other than be very careful with the enemy statistics. My Feast of Goblyns was a huge success except for one small glitch; my Goblyns were capable of killing the entire party singlehandedly :) Try to interpret what GURPS statistics stand for in gameplay - "Strahd leaping accross the room and tearing out the throat of an insolent peasant" would not require him to have multiple levels of super jump along with +50 ST and Extra Attack. Or Azalin (especially with his curse being what it is) shouldn't be able to throw 50d Explosives Fireballs. Of course, these are based on the assumption that you want that slow, depressing, creepy, macabre feel of RL rather than those where Lord Soth throws 20d fireballs regularly (instead of when it is dramatically appropriate).

I'd also love to see your work when you're done... RL is one of my favorites ;)

Cheerio!

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Pavel Brafloff (Has Been Transformed Into A Small, Ill-Favored Ape) [75]:

Culture: TL 3-4ish for Original Style, or 5ish for Masque of the Red Death [0]; Familiarity: The Core Domains [0]; Languages: Any Local (Native / Broken) [-2], Two Other Local (Broken / None) [2];

Attributes: ST 9 [-10]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 12 [20];

Secondary: SM -1 [0]; Spd 6.0 [0]; Mov 6/3 [0]; HP 9 [0]; FP 12 [0]; Perception 12 [10]; Will 9 [-5];

Advantages: Arm ST +2 [10]; Brachiator [5]; Contact Group (Local Underworld: 12, 15-, Somewhat Reliable) [15]; DR 1 (Flexible -20%) [4]; Fur [1]; Pitiable [5]; Sharp Teeth [1];

Disadvantages: Appearance (Ugly) [-8]; Bad Grip X2 [-10]; Disturbing Voice [-10]; Greed (9-) [-22]; Semi-Upright [-5]; Social Stigma (Minority Group) [-10]; Status -1 [-5]; Workaholic [-5];

Quirks: Intolerance (Vistani) [-1]; Mild Gluttony [-1]; Nosy [-1]; Obsession (Lift The Curse) [-1];

Skills: Area Knowledge (Home Domain) (E) IQ+2 [4]-12; Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-14; Climbing (A) DX+3b [4]-15; Current Affairs/TL (Local) (E) IQ+2 [4]-12; Detect Lies (H) Per-1 [2]-11; Intimidation (A) Will+1 [4]-10; Filch (A) DX+1 [4]-13; Lifting (A) HT-1 [1]-11; Observation (A) Per [2]-12; Pro Skill (Chimney Sweep) (A) IQ [2]-10; Search (A) Per-1 [1]-11; Stealth (A) DX+1 [4]-13; Streetwise (A) IQ+1 [4]-11; Survival (Urban) (A) Per-1 [1]-11; Throwing (A) DX-1 [1]-11; Wrestling (A) DX+2 [8]-14;

b = +2 for Brachiator

Techniques: Neck Snap (ST) (H) Def+7 [8]-16;

Notes: An original character for GURPS Ravenloft: Pavel was just a petty thug and sneak thief in one of the central domains until he tried to rob that old Vistani woman in the marketplace. She turned the evil eye upon him and cursed him with the body of a small chimpanzee (or an enormous monkey, he's no expert in exotic fauna). He would do just about anything to get his real body back, but keeping his belly and purse full are always his immediate concern and he can be found performing all sorts of odd jobs around the city / town / village. He would make an excellent tourguide for new arrivals to the demiplane of dread, even if he doesn't believe their story. Though his will was broken by his ordeal, he can be a versatile ally or enemy and remains quite dangerous when he has the element of surprise.

[HuManBing]

Very interesting! I'll try to generate some stats for (low level) thugs that the PCs will come across early in the campaign. Also the stats for the three possible "patron" factions they can ally with.

I'm seeing them as some normal peasant sons and daughters on the border between Lamordia, Falkovnia, and Darkon. The three powers are seeking to secure military control of the area, and the PCs end up doing a few little missions for each of them. The Lamordian patrons are willing to give them forest survival and ranged weapons training (rather like rangers) and once they ally with them they'll get access to low-tech gunpowder weapons too.

Or they could ally with the Falkovnians and get very good with melee and martial weapons. This would also give them good armor and horses as well. The Falkovnian soldiers are ruthless and fairly bloodthirsty.

Finally, there is a mysterious female agent who has various spying missions for the PCs to undertake. In return she gives them magical items that help them out a little here and there. If they win her trust, she teaches them ritual magic. If they follow her orders to the letter and prove themselves indispensable, she teaches them a bit of standard magic.

After this, the campaign could end as the PCs securing the mountainous area (with its valuable saltpeter seams) for the Lamordians or the Falkovnians, or working with the secret agent to undermine and expel both sides from Darkonian soil.

[HuManBing]

I just got my hands on a copy of GURPS Horror (from 1st edition!) and it has some rules on a nerfed magic system. They look similar to one of the suggested magic rules in the 4E double books, and I think I will go with that. I'm still debating whether to make Azalin a standard (non-nerfed) mage, to really show his powers.

The Horror book is good stuff too. And I got it for a song on ebay. :)

[Anders]

An old-but-true saying here goes: Convert the setting, not the mechanics. In other words, trying to emulate the D&D magic system is a mistake (at least IMO). Instead, try to see what you can do to convert the feel of the setting. This is especially easy in a setting like Ravenloft, where the magic system isn't a major part of the setting (unlike, say, Dragonlance.)

[Blood Legend]

Originally Posted by HuManBing

I have the double core books of the 4th ed GURPS, as well as pdfs of Magic, Martial Arts, and three Creatures of the Night monster books. I also have the 3rd ed books on Undead and Monsters. What else should I get?

Not that it's really relevant to your campaign (as far as I know) but Powers might be a welcome addition.

In d20 the Fear/Horror/Madness is basically a Will save. GURPS has the Will Roll. Has anybody tried this? How well does the Will roll reflect these special saves?

If the players encounter anything mind bending enough, they roll Will (Zombies in a setting not expecting zombies, cthulhu in just about any setting, a dead human corpse in a modern game). If they succeed, they're ok, if they fail, add the margin of failure to another 3d6 and look up the chart on page 360-361 in campaigns, which I recommend you take a peek at.

The magic system seems to be quite different. There appears to be several different systems and the main one has Magery ranks as the primary qualifier. Then some spells have other spells as their prerequisites. There are lesser systems e.g. Rituals. How well do these compare? If I wanted the master mage Azalin (whom the PCs will definitely meet and fight against) to still be a surpassingly powerful mage, what's the best system for him? I'm seriously considering having multiple magic systems for added flavor.

I'd like to make an unrelated statement on magic. Spells take a while to cast (like in any game of course) but I hear that the GURPS combat second is a lot more valuable than in some other games. Personal experience has taught me that the mage is best for either an Artillery or 'Swiss Army Knife' roll. Be warned, the Enlarge spell is really broken.

Again, just wanted to say that I'm amazed it took me this long to see the light. I am in awe of the GURPS system... and a little overwhelmed. Any help in taking my first steps would be greatly appreciated!

Don't take it all in at once! That's the biggest one. Get used to combat first, (because every game will have it sooner or later). Then when you've got combat down, throw in footing, posture and vision penalties. After that, look at what your characters like to do and focus your reading on those sections of the book that are relevant. One of your players has a silver-tongue? Read up on Fast-Talk and the NPC reaction rules. One of your players is an axe-weilding thickie? Read up on how unbalanced and unready weapons are effected by ST and all that other fiddly stuff.

Read over the whole book at least once, but dedicate your memory to whats going to come up the most.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Vaclav the Dung-Shoveler (Was Born Under a Bad Sign) [-50]:

Culture: TL 3-4ish for Original Style, or 5ish for Masque of the Red Death [0]; Familiarity: The Core Domains [0]; Languages: Any Local (Native / None) [-3];

Attributes: ST 11 [10]; DX 9 [-20]; IQ 9 [-20]; HT 12 [20];

Secondary: Speed 5.25 [0]; Move 5 [0]; HP 11 [0]; FP 12 [0]; Per 9 [0]; Will 11 [10];

Advantages: Fit [5];

Disadvantages: Destiny (See Notes) [-15]; Honest (15-) [-5]; OPH -1 (Constant Dung Smell) [-5]; Pacifism (Reluctant Killer) [-5]; Reputation -2 ("Cursed!" Superstitious Locals, Always) [-6]; Social Stigma (Minor) [-5]; Status -1 [-5]; Unluckiness [-10]; Wealth (Poor) [-15];

Quirks: Congenial [-1]; Frightens Animals (Only Between Midnight and 1am) [-1]; Nosy [-1];

Skills: Animal Handling (H) (Horses) IQ-2 [1]-7; Area Knowledge (E) (Village) IQ+2 [4]-11; Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-11; Carousing (E) HT [1]-12; Detect Lies (H) Per-2 [1]-7; Hiking (A) HT-1 [1]-11; Intimidation (A) Will-1 [1]-10; Lifting (A) HT [2]-12; Observation (A) Per-1 [1]-8; Soldier/TL (A) IQ-1 [1]-8; Spear (A) DX-1 [1]-8;

Techniques: Targeted Attack (Brawling Punch / Face) Def+3 [4]-9;

Background: An original character for GURPS 4e Ravenloft: Vaclav is a hard-working and able-bodied peasant boy nearing manhood in the borderlands of one of the central domains. Left without any family by war, famine, and plague at an early age, he became second assistant stableboy to His Lordship after a series of comically unpleasant misadventures. At first he celebrated his turn in fortune, but the job has drawn considerable attention to his minor magical afflictions and garnered a terrible reputation with the great majority of his peers. This initially meant a sound beating whenever he dared to show his face at an alehouse, but now that he's developed a nasty left hook and started training for the militia they mostly just make signs to ward off the evil eye when he passes, spit on the ground when he addresses them, etc. His unfortunate tendency to slip and fall in the largest, wettest pile of manure present also erodes his popularity, but overall his life doesn't seem so terrible and he tries to make friends and be stoic. Unbeknownst to all, however, destiny holds far worse in store for Vaclav: He will somehow bring all that he loves to ruin through his own free will and in so doing become the Dark Lord of a Domain.

Notes: Intended as a comic relief / dire plot device NPC, but he could also be simultaneously toned-down and powered-up for use as a "normal peasant" PC for the campaign HuManBing proposes above with a few simple changes. For a starting point total of [25] and general semi-competence with milder weirdness you could for example: Drop the Destiny and add +2 DX, +1 HT, and +2 Per to make him a more talented youth, OR drop the Destiny, Pacifism, and Social Stigma and add Duty (Militia, 6-) [-2], +2 ST, +1 DX, and 12 points in Skills appropriate to his career, military training, and social life to make him an experienced adult.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

The Widow Bloom, Village Folklorist [25]:

Culture: TL 3-4ish for Original Style, or 5ish for Masque of the Red Death [0]; Familiarity: The Core Domains [0]; Languages: Any Local (Native / None) [-3];

Attributes: ST 8 [-20]; DX 9 [-20]; IQ 12 [40]; HT 9 [-10];

Secondary: Speed 4.0 [-10]; Move 4 [0]; HP 7 [-2]; FP 8 [-3]; Per 12 [0]; Will 14 [10];

Advantages: Claim to Hospitality (Grateful Villagers) [5]; Honest Face [1]; Magic Resistance +4 [8]; Reputation +2 ("Helpful Wise Woman," Local Peasantry, Always) [5]; Social Regard +2 (Venerated) [10]; Talent X2 (Green Thumb) [10];

Disadvantages: Hard of Hearing [-10]; Miserliness (12-) [-10]; Pacifism (Can't Harm Innocents) [-10]; Skinny [-5]; Social Stigma (2nd-Class Citizen) [-5]; Status -1 [-5]; Stubbornness [-5]; Wealth (Poor) [-15];

Quirks: Careful [-1]; Incompetence: Diplomacy [-1]; Mildly Paranoid [-1]; Responsive [-1];

Skills: Area Knowledge (E) (Village) IQ+2 [4]-14; Detect Lies (H) Per [4]-12; Diagnosis/TL (H) IQ-1 [2]-11; Fast Talk (A) IQ [2]-12; First Aid/TL (E) IQ+2 [4]-14; Gardening (E) (Herbal) IQ+3g [2]-15; Hazardous Materials/TL (A) (Magical) IQ+1 [4]-13; Herb Lore (VH) IQ+4g [16]-16; History (H) (Local) IQ [4]-12; Intimidation (A) Will [2]-14; Naturalist (H) IQ+2g [4]-15; Observation (A) Per [2]-12; Occultism (A) IQ+1 [4]-13; Public Speaking (A) IQ-1 [1]-11; Staff (A) DX+1 [4]-10; Stealth (A) DX+1 [4]-10;

g = +2 for Green Thumb

Techniques: Fertility (Herb Lore) Def+5 [6]-16; Moly (Magic Resistance) (Herb Lore) Def+3 [4]-16;

Background: An original character for GURPS 4e Ravenloft: The Widow Bloom is the oldest and wisest woman in the village. She has no talent with magic (quite the opposite in fact) but she knows a lot about it and is the one people turn to for advice when something weird is mutilating the cattle or swiping the virgins again. She enjoys getting out of the hut and helping decent folks but is cheerfully amoral beyond that, a fact which is usually lost on her neighbors.

Notes: Intended as a "normal peasant" PC for the campaign HuManBing proposes above, but could also be used as a colorful NPC Ally / Contact / plot device.