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Old 05-21-2008, 08:33 PM   #1
HuManBing
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Default Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

I've decided to use a different set of rules for my Ravenloft campaign. After many years of playing by d20, we're ready to move on. I vetted various systems, most notably the Warhammer, WoD, CoC, Amazing Engine, and Star Frontiers systems, and finally decided on GURPS. It had the main ingredients I needed: no hidebound class system, ease of creating a powerful character without loads of level crunching, opposed rolls instead of set percentages, and a magic system that was a welcome change from the memorization standard.

I have talked it over with my players and they are amenable to the idea. We're likely going to bring the current campaign to an end with a massive combat against Strahd and his main servitors, which will probably kill them all. Those who are able to escape (beating the odds) will be rewarded by having their PCs become recurring helpful NPCs.

Thence, a blank slate. The PCs will make new GURPS characters and their progression will be dictated solely by in-game developments, e.g. if they ally with the Darkonian agent she'll teach them some magic. If they ally with the Falkovnians they'll get faster swordsmanship progression. If they ally with the churches they may receive divine favor.

The crunch:

I have the double core books of the 4th ed GURPS, as well as pdfs of Magic, Martial Arts, and three Creatures of the Night monster books. I also have the 3rd ed books on Undead and Monsters. What else should I get?

In d20 the Fear/Horror/Madness is basically a Will save. GURPS has the Will Roll. Has anybody tried this? How well does the Will roll reflect these special saves?

I like how the combat has the Shock system to make it quite dangerous. Fits in nicely with the deadliness of Ravenloft.

I especially like the skills system, which appears to avoid the arbitrary "this skill starts at 20% but that one starts at 50%" problem in CoC and the Amazing Engine. The division into Easy, Moderate, and Hard skills is more reasonable.

The magic system seems to be quite different. There appears to be several different systems and the main one has Magery ranks as the primary qualifier. Then some spells have other spells as their prerequisites. There are lesser systems e.g. Rituals. How well do these compare? If I wanted the master mage Azalin (whom the PCs will definitely meet and fight against) to still be a surpassingly powerful mage, what's the best system for him? I'm seriously considering having multiple magic systems for added flavor.

Again, just wanted to say that I'm amazed it took me this long to see the light. I am in awe of the GURPS system... and a little overwhelmed. Any help in taking my first steps would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 05-21-2008, 08:54 PM   #2
AmesJainchill
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Welcome to the fold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuManBing
I have the double core books of the 4th ed GURPS, as well as pdfs of Magic, Martial Arts, and three Creatures of the Night monster books. I also have the 3rd ed books on Undead and Monsters. What else should I get?
I hear Horror from 3e is good.

Quote:
In d20 the Fear/Horror/Madness is basically a Will save. GURPS has the Will Roll. Has anybody tried this? How well does the Will roll reflect these special saves?
I feel it worked well for my CoC game, but I got tired of it after a while, it seemed forced. But my players seem to have liked it.

Quote:
The magic system seems to be quite different. There appears to be several different systems and the main one has Magery ranks as the primary qualifier. Then some spells have other spells as their prerequisites. There are lesser systems e.g. Rituals. How well do these compare? If I wanted the master mage Azalin (whom the PCs will definitely meet and fight against) to still be a surpassingly powerful mage, what's the best system for him?
Depends on what you want him to do. Should he be a specialist or a generalist? Throw around direct damage or buff minions?

Quote:
Any help in taking my first steps would be greatly appreciated!
Remember that if it doesn't need detailed stats, don't stat it. Generic enemies (guards, soldiers, orcs, skeletons) just need ST, DX, HP, weapon skill, weapon and armor, and any necessary disads, such as Injury Tolerance: Unliving for the skeleton.

Don't worry about exact point costs for NPCs and monsters. It's not a good measure of combat prowess and you're not operating on a budget.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:03 PM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuManBing

I have the double core books of the 4th ed GURPS, as well as pdfs of Magic, Martial Arts, and three Creatures of the Night monster books. I also have the 3rd ed books on Undead and Monsters. What else should I get?

Fantasy might be all really and I think you could get by without it. Powers might aid int eh creation of some creatures but again I consider this advanced stuff and not necessary for soemone doing his first Gurps campaign.

I have run a Gurps game based off of a version of the original Ravenloft translated to Gurps. I've also run through the 3.5 version of Ravenloft while playing that system.

I think you're not going to have any special problems. I will tell you to not base your version of Strahd on the Vampire sample character in the back of the Gurps Characters book. That one's HT and initiative (Base Move) are too low for a a master villain.

The simplest way to make a mage really tough is to give him more than 3 levels of Magery and a lot of FP. Don't bother trying to mix in Ritual Magic as well. That's an unnecessary complication. Work with just one magic system at a time.
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Old 05-21-2008, 09:11 PM   #4
Rocket Man
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuManBing
I've decided to use a different set of rules for my Ravenloft campaign. After many years of playing by d20, we're ready to move on. I vetted various systems, most notably the Warhammer, WoD, CoC, Amazing Engine, and Star Frontiers systems, and finally decided on GURPS. It had the main ingredients I needed: no hidebound class system, ease of creating a powerful character without loads of level crunching, opposed rolls instead of set percentages, and a magic system that was a welcome change from the memorization standard.

I have talked it over with my players and they are amenable to the idea. We're likely going to bring the current campaign to an end with a massive combat against Strahd and his main servitors, which will probably kill them all. Those who are able to escape (beating the odds) will be rewarded by having their PCs become recurring helpful NPCs.

Thence, a blank slate. The PCs will make new GURPS characters and their progression will be dictated solely by in-game developments, e.g. if they ally with the Darkonian agent she'll teach them some magic. If they ally with the Falkovnians they'll get faster swordsmanship progression. If they ally with the churches they may receive divine favor.

The crunch:

I have the double core books of the 4th ed GURPS, as well as pdfs of Magic, Martial Arts, and three Creatures of the Night monster books. I also have the 3rd ed books on Undead and Monsters. What else should I get?

In d20 the Fear/Horror/Madness is basically a Will save. GURPS has the Will Roll. Has anybody tried this? How well does the Will roll reflect these special saves?

I like how the combat has the Shock system to make it quite dangerous. Fits in nicely with the deadliness of Ravenloft.

I especially like the skills system, which appears to avoid the arbitrary "this skill starts at 20% but that one starts at 50%" problem in CoC and the Amazing Engine. The division into Easy, Moderate, and Hard skills is more reasonable.

The magic system seems to be quite different. There appears to be several different systems and the main one has Magery ranks as the primary qualifier. Then some spells have other spells as their prerequisites. There are lesser systems e.g. Rituals. How well do these compare? If I wanted the master mage Azalin (whom the PCs will definitely meet and fight against) to still be a surpassingly powerful mage, what's the best system for him? I'm seriously considering having multiple magic systems for added flavor.

Again, just wanted to say that I'm amazed it took me this long to see the light. I am in awe of the GURPS system... and a little overwhelmed. Any help in taking my first steps would be greatly appreciated!
Welcome aboard the GURPS bandwagon! My, but we're seeing a lot of new faces lately. Whee!

OK, to take on your questions.

1. The only other purchase I would recommend is the 3e GURPS Horror. It has a lot of great advice on how to make a horror game genuinely scary, including (if I remember right) a few tips on fantasy horror. 3e Spirits can be useful, too, if you want a different ritual-based magic system ... but note that GURPS Thaumatology is supposed to be coming out in August and may make Spirits obsolete.

2. I've found the Will roll (in this case, the Fright Check, see GURPS Campaigns) works pretty well for the sort of sanity-threatening terror that most spooky games call for, but you have to remember two key things: 1) Anything higher than 14 always fails on a Fright Check and 2) Apply any situational modifiers you think should make the scene scarier, such as being in the dark, facing a thousand dog-sized cockroaches, or whatever. Otherwise, the checks become far too easy for most PCs.

3. The shock penalties are great if you want "gritty" combat. But be careful about loading in too many combat modifiers in your first game, or you can confuse yourself (and your players!) fast. Start small with just the basic combat system and grow from there to wherever you feel comfortable -- since "hit points" are low compared to high-level D&D, even the most basic options can get pretty deadly, if that's what you want.

4. You will find that everyone on this board has a different opinion about the "house" magic system. If you want the "classic roleplaying spellcaster," I think it works pretty well ... but the prerequisites do mean that you have to know a lot of little things before you can learn the spectacular stuff (unlike D&D, where a 4th level wizard can pull fireballs out of thin air).

As for what the "best" system for your master mage is, it depends on what you want him to do. If you want him to snap his fingers and call Lightning, that's probably the traditional system. If you want spells to take a long time and have insidious effects, ritual magic is probably your baby (though you may have to do some fine-tuning to give it the feel you want). One other option, if you have 4e GURPS Powers, is to throw out the spells entirely and design magic through Advantages as though it were a superpower -- some other folks on these boards have had very satisfactory results with that and can give you better advice than I can.

Multiple magic systems can be great for flavor, but remember the rule of seven! The author of GURPS Fantasy mentioned that most people can remember a list of five to nine things (seven, on average) but that any more is pushing it. So if you design multiple systems, have fun, but don't do too many or things are likely to get a little muddled.

Again, welcome aboard! It CAN seem a little overwhelming at first, but I think you'll find the numerous options that GURPS provides will give you a freedom unmatched by any other game. Enjoy!
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:46 AM   #5
carllarson
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Powers would be a serious undertaking to reflect Azalin Rex's abilities. Even the basic Magic system would be a huge undertaking. It may be the simplest system workable though.

Basic Set, Magic, and Horror 3E should do you well enough. And if you have the old Van Richten's Guides, and Ravenloft setting books, May not even need Horror 3E.
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:00 PM   #6
HuManBing
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Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Wow! What a warm response!

Thanks for the suggestions; I'll take them down and get more familiar with them. I have a fair bit of time before I need to shift the players to GURPS, but there's plenty of food for thought for me to be getting on with here.

The magic system could initially be a Ritual system first, forcing the players to focus on preparation. Then later I could add in the traditional magic. The one exception to this would be if the players ally with Azalin early on, which would give them access to the high fantasy magic system.

I'll definitely pick up the Fantasy and Horror supplements as pdfs from the site. I read through the China and Japan books and was very impressed with the quality of the research there. :thumbsup:
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Old 05-22-2008, 06:37 PM   #7
Anthony
 
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Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

In general, a system that behaves like ritual magic is probably more true to the horror feel; thermonuclear wizards are kind of out of genre. That said, D&D magic isn't a terribly good match for the horror genre either.
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Old 05-22-2008, 08:53 PM   #8
HuManBing
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Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

I'll drink to that. I liked the Call of Cthulhu magic feel quite a bit, even if their system for it was very barebones. I will definitely preserve a feeling of "forbidden lore" for the magic use in this campaign.

I did a bit of searching for the Horror add on. It is not one of the downloadables on the e23 site, so I'll be looking on ebay for a 3rd ed version.
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:03 AM   #9
AmesJainchill
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Man
(unlike D&D, where a 4th level wizard can pull fireballs out of thin air).
5th level. ;D
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:10 AM   #10
HuManBing
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Default Re: Newcomer seeks advice: Ravenloft in GURPS?

How high can the Magery stat usefully go? And apart from the chance of learning a spell, does it influence anything else?
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