Defensive Attacks and Feints

[ravenfish]

I am wondering whether it is possible to combine a Feint with a Defensive Attack (from Martial Arts). From a narrative standpoint, it makes sense to me (focusing on protecting oneself, while seeking to create an opening to exploit, seems a logical thing to do), but, given that my total martial arts experience consists of swordfighting with sticks as a kid, I will leave that angle to those with more experience. From a rules standpoint, it seemed acceptable at first (the rules are pretty consistent that any time you could make an attack, you can make a feint instead), until it occurred to me that, since the only disadvantage to a Defensive Attack compared to a regular Attack is reduced damage (or certain grappling penalties which don't apply here), and Feints have no damage in the first place, this would amount to giving a +1 to a defense roll with no drawback when feinting, which hardly seems sporting. So, two questions:

1) Is there anything in the rules to either explicitly allow or disallow a Feint from a Defensive Attack?

2) Regardless of the answer to the previous question, what would a good houserule be for doing so, considering game balance and martial-arts-plausability? My current thought is to float the -2 to damage to a -2 on the quick contest (which corresponds nicely to the +1 given to a foe's defense in the case of a Defensive-Attack grapple, another non-damaging scenario) -- does this strike others as reasonable?

[Anaraxes]

Strictly speaking, Feint is a separate Maneuver from Attack. It's not a sub-option of Attack. Not only can you not "Feint from a Defensive Attack", you don't Feint from a regular Attack, either. You Feint from a Feint Maneuver.

I think what you want is a "Defensive Feint" option for Feint. Works much like a regular Feint, only you're not really committing to it, but keeping an eye on your defense (much like the theory for Defensive Attack). For a drawback, I'd suggest a -2 skill modifier for resolving the Feint, along with the +1 to Active Defenses.

[ravenfish]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Strictly speaking, Feint is a separate Maneuver from Attack. It's not a sub-option of Attack. Not only can you not "Feint from a Defensive Attack", you don't Feint from a regular Attack, either. You Feint from a Feint Maneuver.

I don't think this is strictly true. Per Martial Arts (p.127), you can trade any attack (small a) you make for a feint- examples given include turning one attack of a Rapid Strike into a feint (which inherits the -6 penalty) or turning the attack portion of a Move and Attack maneuver into a feint (which inherits the -4 penalty and skill cap of 9, so is rarely a good idea).

[Plane]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

what would a good houserule be for doing so, considering game balance and martial-arts-plausability? My current thought is to float the -2 to damage to a -2 on the quick contest

This is what Douglas Cole did on page 21 of Technical Grappling:

You have -2 to ST and DX in Contests in which you are the attacker.

That sounds like a reasonable rule for all feints, even if some might interpret that to only mean feints-while-grappling.

TBH the approach is pretty conservative to me. -2 to ST only causes -1 to damage and Defensive Attack (MA100) traditionally gives -2 to damage, so I would've expected a -4 to ST.

Buying off that sort of damage penalty (better of +2 or +1 per die) would normally (per MA90) cause you a -4 technique penalty.

So your approach (like Cole's) is kind of a very-generous compromise between the traditional MA of "no problem at all" vs the logically brutal reality, met exactly halfway.