[Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor

Donny Brook · 02-02-2023, 11:30 AM

I'm looking at a padded cloth caparison for a horse.

The rules for silk armor (LT104) say it is +19CF for any type of cloth armor to be silk.

The rules for a horse caparison (LT117) say it is 500% the cost of human torso armor.

Is this the same as saying the cost for the silk caparison should be base torso cost ($50) +23CF (=$1150)? Or should it be $50 + 19CF = 1000 x 5 = $5000?

On a less crunchy level, isn't +19CF for silk kind of unrealistically high? I see 100% silk shirts advertised on LL Bean for about $80 bucks which is certainly not 20x the cost of other shirts.

Anthony · 02-02-2023, 11:45 AM

CF is only a vague approximation. The CF modifier should really depend on location, silk was amazingly expensive in ancient Europe because it needed to be imported from China.

ravenfish · 02-02-2023, 11:48 AM

The increased price for horse armor should combine multiplicatively with price increases for materials and quality. In essence, it's the equivalent of the cost-and-weight multipliers for different hit locations on page 100.

Varyon · 02-02-2023, 12:06 PM

Low Tech's "% of Torso Armor" is talking about the base cost and weight of a piece of armor - that is, it's an indication of how large it is. A horse caparison covers around 5x as much surface area as human torso armor would, so is 5x as heavy, with a comparable increase in cost. So, you use the "% of Torso Armor" value to start, then apply modifiers like CF, weight reductions, and so forth. In the case of a silk horse caparison, you're looking at 5x nominal cost, then +19 CF applied to that to make it silk, for a total of x100 cost. But if you had it with another modifier that gave, say, +4 CF, you'd instead be looking at 5x nominal, then +23 CF, for an end result of x120 cost.

RGTraynor · 02-02-2023, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

On a less crunchy level, isn't +19CF for silk kind of unrealistically high? I see 100% silk shirts advertised on LL Bean for about $80 bucks which is certainly not 20x the cost of other shirts.

(blinks HARD) Surely you're not suggesting that our modern-day, high tech, worldwide trade paradigm should apply to TL 3? Me getting lapis lazuli jewelry with an aluminum setting shouldn't be fifty times as costly as rubies in silver, but it sure would be in antiquity, and I'd be surprised if there were as few as ten thousand similar examples. Heck, the cup of tea in front of me -- one of the finest blends commercially available? An hour's worth of pay at a minimum wage job will buy twenty cups of it, and the substance was utterly unobtainable in Europe before the 16th century.

whswhs · 02-02-2023, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGTraynor

(blinks HARD) Surely you're not suggesting that our modern-day, high tech, worldwide trade paradigm should apply to TL 3? Me getting lapis lazuli jewelry with an aluminum setting shouldn't be fifty times as costly as rubies in silver, but it sure would be in antiquity, and I'd be surprised if there were as few as ten thousand similar examples. Heck, the cup of tea in front of me -- one of the finest blends commercially available? An hour's worth of pay at a minimum wage job will buy twenty cups of it, and the substance was utterly unobtainable in Europe before the 16th century.

There is always the old approximation of pepper trading for silver one for one by weight . . .

ericthered · 02-02-2023, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony

CF is only a vague approximation. The CF modifier should really depend on location, silk was amazingly expensive in ancient Europe because it needed to be imported from China.

So then what IS a good approximation? it's not going to cost as little as flax...

Anthony · 02-02-2023, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered

So then what IS a good approximation? it's not going to cost as little as flax...

+19 is probably fine in this specific case, it's just that such things really shouldn't be constants, they're going to depend extensively on what you're modifying and stack inconsistently.

Donny Brook · 02-02-2023, 01:08 PM

Okay, so the size multiplier is separate from the CFs for materials. I can work with that.

As for the CF for silk, it seems pretty vague. The setting for this horse is the Near East in the 900s.

Anthony · 02-02-2023, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Okay, so the size multiplier is separate from the CFs for materials. I can work with that.

As for the CF for silk, it seems pretty vague. The setting for this horse is the Near East in the 900s.

That might make silk cheaper, as it's part way along the silk road, but still pricey (instead of 20x cost, might only be 15x or 10x).

02-02-2023, 11:30 AM	#1
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	[Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor I'm looking at a padded cloth caparison for a horse. The rules for silk armor (LT104) say it is +19CF for any type of cloth armor to be silk. The rules for a horse caparison (LT117) say it is 500% the cost of human torso armor. Is this the same as saying the cost for the silk caparison should be base torso cost ($50) +23CF (=$1150)? Or should it be $50 + 19CF = 1000 x 5 = $5000? On a less crunchy level, isn't +19CF for silk kind of unrealistically high? I see 100% silk shirts advertised on LL Bean for about $80 bucks which is certainly not 20x the cost of other shirts.

02-02-2023, 11:45 AM	#2
Anthony Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Berkeley, CA	Re: [Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor CF is only a vague approximation. The CF modifier should really depend on location, silk was amazingly expensive in ancient Europe because it needed to be imported from China. __________________ My GURPS site and Blog.

02-02-2023, 11:48 AM	#3
ravenfish Join Date: May 2007	Re: [Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor The increased price for horse armor should combine multiplicatively with price increases for materials and quality. In essence, it's the equivalent of the cost-and-weight multipliers for different hit locations on page 100. __________________ I predicted GURPS:Dungeon Fantasy several hours before it came out and all I got was this lousy sig.

02-02-2023, 12:06 PM	#4
Varyon Join Date: Jun 2013	Re: [Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor Low Tech's "% of Torso Armor" is talking about the base cost and weight of a piece of armor - that is, it's an indication of how large it is. A horse caparison covers around 5x as much surface area as human torso armor would, so is 5x as heavy, with a comparable increase in cost. So, you use the "% of Torso Armor" value to start, then apply modifiers like CF, weight reductions, and so forth. In the case of a silk horse caparison, you're looking at 5x nominal cost, then +19 CF applied to that to make it silk, for a total of x100 cost. But if you had it with another modifier that gave, say, +4 CF, you'd instead be looking at 5x nominal, then +23 CF, for an end result of x120 cost. __________________ GURPS Overhaul

02-02-2023, 01:08 PM	#9
Donny Brook Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Snoopy's basement	Re: [Low-Tech]Question about silk horse armor Okay, so the size multiplier is separate from the CFs for materials. I can work with that. As for the CF for silk, it seems pretty vague. The setting for this horse is the Near East in the 900s.