Questions about mean, antisocial Disadvantages

[Solomon Draak]

About single Disadvantages:

Sadist: does a sadist feel the compulsion to hurt everyone everytime, or only if presented a clear opportunity to do it without repercussions? And can he make exceptions for friends and loved ones?

Callous: can exceptions be made for friends and loved ones?
And, should Callous be required for characters with Bully or Sadism?


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About interactions between Disadvantages:


Bloodlust + Bad Temper: if the characters fails the roll to control his Bad Temper and a brawl begins ( a light brawl, no weapons or homicidal intent ) does his killing instinct kicks in or not?

Bloodlust + Berserk: if an opponent is down, what urge is stronger - coup the grace or immediately attack a new foe?

Bloodlust + Sadism: the priority is to kill the enemy ASAP or to torture him?

Bully + Sadism: what is exactly the difference? What does a Bully that is different from what a Sadist does?

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About GURPS - Zombie: ( pag 60 )

Could incontrollable disadvantages ( no self control roll ) be used by player characters? Or non-zombies in general?

Also:

Bad Temper (the zombie is constantly enraged – if it sees you, it attacks),
Bloodlust (the zombie thoroughly slaughters one target at any cost)

What is the difference between incontrollable Bad Temper and incontrollable Bloodlust? They both just attack on sight.

[David Johnston2]

The Sadistic compulsion only applies when you have an opportunity. That means, when they have another person in a vulnerable position. They have a prisoner, slave, or blackmail evidence, or a spouse who can't fight back. That kind of thing. It doesn't apply to people capable of dealing with you on basically equal terms or when there are people around who can object. However, longer term repercussions don't count as you not having an opportunity. And the compulsion will still be there with "loved ones". However they do have some wiggle room concerning how much they hurt the "loved one".

If an exception was made to Callous for a loved one, that would be a Mitigator on their Callous.

No. Bullies and Sadists don't have to be Callous. People can be complicated

If a person with Bloodlust gets into a brawl they will make sure to hit their foes at least once after they're down (unless they make their self control roll)

A Berserker with Bloodlust will take that extra attack before moving on.

Bloodlust does not contain any particular need to kill opponents quickly. Just to make sure. Sadists with bloodlust can take plenty of time to kill their foes when there are no more foes to deny them the opportunity.

Bullies are different from Sadists in that they have no need to harm those who submit to them. Their compulsion is to try to dominate, and pain is just a means to that end rather than an end in itself.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Sadist: does a sadist feel the compulsion to hurt everyone everytime, or only if presented a clear opportunity to do it without repercussions?

I think the idea is that whenever the character has someone within their control in some way - a captured prisoner, for example - he or she will need to make a roll to resist indulging. They probably feel the compulsion to hurt people at all times, but unless they have a good opportunity, no roll would be necessary (otherwise, a character with a Disadvantage like Sadism, Unnatural Appetite, etc basically couldn't go anywhere with people without having to constantly roll, eventually failing and attacking, abducting, etc someone).

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And can he make exceptions for friends and loved ones?

Callous: can exceptions be made for friends and loved ones?

Arguably, a Disadvantage that doesn't apply to some small group should be taken with a Limitation, probably around -20% or so. Personally, I see no issues with having the Disadvantage only apply at Quirk level when dealing with other PC's, Allies, and Dependents, without needing to adjust the price, but not every GM is going to agree with that.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And, should Callous be required for characters with Bully or Sadism?

I don't think so. The effects are distinct, and someone needn't be callous to be a bully or sadist, even if it's relatively common for that to be the case.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Bad Temper: if the characters fails the roll to control his Bad Temper and a brawl begins ( a light brawl, no weapons or homicidal intent ) does his killing instinct kicks in or not?

Bloodlust indicates it doesn't apply in instances like an average tavern brawl ("he would use his fists like anyone else"), and only really applies to true foes. I don't think someone you picked a fight with because they bumped into you would count. If the fight escalates, such as the enemy drawing a weapon, or if the person you happened to pick a fight with happens to be a legitimate foe (feuding clansmen are mentioned), then the character with Bloodlust will be inclined to eliminate his opponent.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Berserk: if an opponent is down, what urge is stronger - coup the grace or immediately attack a new foe?

That's a tough one. Honestly, in that situation, I'd probably just let the player decide - but they'd have to make the call upon dropping the foe. If they opt to move on to the next, they get the roll to break out of the berserk state immediately (and if they break out, they then have to roll against Bloodlust to see if they decide to execute the foe anyway). If they opt to go for the kill, they don't get the roll to break out until the foe is (or at least appears to be) dead.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Sadism: the priority is to kill the enemy ASAP or to torture him?

In a fight, the priority will be to kill the target. If a foe is captured, the priority will be to torture them. I'd say once you opt to end the torture, against a legitimate foe you'll need to roll against Bloodlust to avoid finishing the job and killing them - unless you already successfully resisted Bloodlust against that foe recently (say, back when you initially capture them).

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bully + Sadism: what is exactly the difference? What does a Bully that is different from what a Sadist does?

A Bully pushes people around (literally and figuratively) and is a general jerk to them. A Sadist purposefully finds and exploits ways to hurt people. The difference is sometimes subtle (but not always - a Bully will probably be satisfied from his victim recoiling in fear from the knife, while the Sadist will need to do some cutting).

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Could incontrollable disadvantages ( no self control roll ) be used by player characters? Or non-zombies in general?

Non-zombies, sure. For PC's, you generally don't want an uncontrollable Disadvantage unless it's something that only sometimes applies - say as a Temporary Disadvantage on an Advantage, taken with a Mitigator, etc. A character who never resists an Self Control Disadvantage is likely to wind up largely unplayable.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

What is the difference between incontrollable Bad Temper and incontrollable Bloodlust? They both just attack on sight.

In the specific case of zombies, uncontrollable Bad Temper means they attack on sight with minimal to no provocation, while uncontrollable Bloodlust means once they've downed a foe they'll keep attacking until that target is clearly dead (possibly quite literally torn apart) rather than moving onto the next. More generally, uncontrollable Bad Temper means you'll "attack" in some way (which may just be throwing a vicious insult) if you're in a stressful situation or similar, while uncontrollable Bloodlust basically just works as for the zombie.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Sadist: does a sadist feel the compulsion to hurt everyone everytime, or only if presented a clear opportunity to do it without repercussions? And can he make exceptions for friends and loved ones?

They can attempt to resist if there are repercussions. A sadist with a sense of duty would have a disadvantage conflict about torturing the subject of the sense of duty. Same deal with dependents, and they could resist the sadism.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Bad Temper: if the characters fails the roll to control his Bad Temper and a brawl begins ( a light brawl, no weapons or homicidal intent ) does his killing instinct kicks in or not?

In an ordinary tavern brawl, a fighter with Bloodlust uses his fists and does not kill. That's explicit in the disadvantage description.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Berserk: if an opponent is down, what urge is stronger - coup the grace or immediately attack a new foe?

People with bloodlust do not need to immediately kill downed foes, but can be tactical about it, per the word of Kromm. I don't hugely agree, but that's the intent. As such, berserkers should prioritize active threats over unmoving bodies.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bloodlust + Sadism: the priority is to kill the enemy ASAP or to torture him?

Kill by torture, if possible, and kill ASAP if not.

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

Bully + Sadism: what is exactly the difference? What does a Bully that is different from what a Sadist does?

A bully prefers to get what he wants by compelling and demeaning people. Given the choice between asking for a favor and berating someone into compliance, the bully will choose derision. But a bully doesn't cause pain for its own sake. A bully won't torture a defenseless prisoner with no secrets, though they will torture a prisoner during interrogation.

A sadist causes pain for its sake - well, because the sadist enjoys causing pain. A sadist will torture a defenseless prisoner, regardless of any need to interrogate them.

I think its implied that a sadist doesn't necessarily need to push people around, and can prefer to get things done by asking for favors and trading deals.

[Solomon Draak]

And a Callous and Sadistic Bully with Bloodlust and Berserk?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And a Callous and Sadistic Bully with Bloodlust and Berserk?

Is probably an unplayable character, and your GM should tell you to start over from scratch.

[mburr0003]

The others pretty well covered your questions, but I have a differing opinion here:

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

About interactions between Disadvantages:

I tend to place the emphasis on the Disad that gives more points, it's the "worse" problem.

So for Berserk and Bloodlust, that's generally going to be Berserk.

If they are equal I look at the Self Control roll, the worse should be prioritized.

What is the difference between incontrollable Bad Temper and incontrollable Bloodlust? They both just attack on sight.

Bloodlust means you want the foe to go down and stay down, there is no "attack unprovoked" clause.

So if someone has uncontrollable Bloodlust, they might not attack without reason, but once a fight starts, they will take measures to make sure foes go down.

In the case of the Zombies the idea is once they've downed a person (or animal, whatever) they will finish that foe off. I'd only have them turn from a downed foe if they are attacked by a still active foe.

This plays into the old saw: You don't have to run faster than the zombies, just faster than the guy you shot in the knee...

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And a Callous and Sadistic Bully with Bloodlust and Berserk?

Depends on the campaign... are they playing Puppy-Kickingly Evil Murder Hobos? Then it's probably fine... though Berserk should really be called "And You Will Die Soon" as it tends to lead to very short lifespans in the Player didn't build the PC just so.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

About single Disadvantages:

Sadist: does a sadist feel the compulsion to hurt everyone everytime, or only if presented a clear opportunity to do it without repercussions? And can he make exceptions for friends and loved ones?

Callous: can exceptions be made for friends and loved ones?
And, should Callous be required for characters with Bully or Sadism?

A Callous person would very rarely have "friends or loved ones". The person may PRETEND to do thou.


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About interactions between Disadvantages:


Bloodlust + Bad Temper: if the characters fails the roll to control his Bad Temper and a brawl begins ( a light brawl, no weapons or homicidal intent ) does his killing instinct kicks in or not?

Roll for his Bloodlust self control. If it fails...

Someone with Bloodlust is someone that doesnt have proper anger control. Add in a Bad Temper on the mix and you got yourself someone that will murder another over a silly bar discussion.

And yes, this happens. The news are filled with such cases.

Bloodlust + Berserk: if an opponent is down, what urge is stronger - coup the grace or immediately attack a new foe?

Break the neck of the guy you just KOed. Move to the next. Rinse and repeat.

Bloodlust + Sadism: the priority is to kill the enemy ASAP or to torture him?

Torture for as long as possible, and kill the victim once you've extracted all the pleasure you could from it.

Sadism only doesnt require to murder at the end. With Bloodlust it becomes the serial killer thing, that murders after insanely cruelty.

Bully + Sadism: what is exactly the difference? What does a Bully that is different from what a Sadist does?

A Bully is more about humilliation, while Sadism is more about physical pain. Add the 2 together and you'll get a villain that likes to talk about how he will erase your legacy and how he will make the town loath your memory after his done with in the middle of the torture session.

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About GURPS - Zombie: ( pag 60 )

Could incontrollable disadvantages ( no self control roll ) be used by player characters? Or non-zombies in general?

Yes. For example, a Werewolf could have Berserk and possibly even Bloodlust (with "Only during full moon") with no self control. Many other examples are possible, even for regular humans (usually a sign of some very deep traumas). For non humans will obviously be more common (like Robots for example, with some strict programs. A Killer Bot may have Bloodlust with no self control, for example)

Also:


What is the difference between incontrollable Bad Temper and incontrollable Bloodlust? They both just attack on sight.

No. Uncontrollable Bloodlust means that IF you need to fight, you'll ALWAYS make sure to double tap your opponent. It doesnt mean that you go around killing unprovoked.

Uncontrollable Bad Temper means you dont take kindly to even a slight offense.

Let me exemplify:

Uncontrollable Bloodlust fits well for a Killer Bot. The Robot doesnt care if you call it "scrap metal" or some such. It may not have any reaction at all. But if you throw a rock at it, it blows your head off.

Uncontrollable Bad Temper fits well for a maniac criminal that doesnt tolerate ANY sort of disrespect, and isnt very well in the head. Anything that this individual may perceive as disrespect (wether or not it truly was), he goes physical. That doesnt mean murdering thou - a good beating may be good enough to "teach you some respect".

That would be highly uncommon thou, for such a nice guy would throw a brawl even against police officers or under other stupid circumstances. It does happen thou.

[KarlKost]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And a Callous and Sadistic Bully with Bloodlust and Berserk?

An uncontrollable serial killer on a literal killing spree after snapping.

You know those cases of college shootings? When a guy snaps and starts to randomly shooting people around?

Well, it's that.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Solomon Draak

And a Callous and Sadistic Bully with Bloodlust and Berserk?

An NPC that the PCs (depending on their disads) probably don't have to feel bad about killing.